100% right. Only spec that can pull their weight is BM hunter. I guess devs think that if 1 out of 3 specs is in the mid pack, the class is fine. Hunter class three and in this case SV and MM class tree showed the lack of interest and laziness on developers side.
For people who think this is another “I WANT RANGED SURVIVAL BACK” it’s not. I’m a big melee SV fan, more then it was ranged, and everyone know that I argued many times with Beppels about identity od SV and how in my opinion is better as melee (since it started originally with melee abilites). But here I say again that current version of SV hunter is really bad design.
What I heavily dislike about SV hunter is how you think you have any choice but you boiled down to one because one set of talents heavily outperforms the other choice. And you know that playstyle during 9.2.5 where you where fishing for WF bomb procs and no one loved it? Yea they want to continue on that design where you have to fish for KC rests.
Imagine warrior fishing procs with Slam to get something? You think people would love it? They need to sit down, but first kick Brian Holinka from the meeting, and then think about SV design.
he does. a simple raider io seach will show that in season 4 when survival was doing 10 million % more damage than the other 2 hunter specs it was matched by equal amount of players that played bm which was near the bottom of every spec in game.
right now in this 10.0 season 4 patch where survival hunters are near bottom they are only represented by around 10k players. meanwhile bm is represented currently by almost 70k players.
when survival is doing bad damage wise nobody is playing it. when it is doing 10 million % damage than everyone else. fred, carl and karen are the only 3 people playing it.
Oh hey, I had forgotten about this thread till the last reply.
Beats me, I have no idea what you’re trying to gain from it.
Irreverent, you mention specifics you bring them first thing, not make others call you out on them.
More insults, Kay.
And yet you had to be badgered to provide it.
You make the claim, you back it up. It’s that simple. Go anywhere and have an argument and demand your opposition do your work for you and you would be laughed out of the conversation.
That you had to be called on to link in the first place.
I do.
Hilariously I wasn’t since I forgot about till the light-necro below XD
yeah the Nerve That Mythic Raiding isn’t the only content in the game, the nerve.
I didn’t immediately recognize a cropped screenshot without context no, I know what Warcraftlogs is.
And this is why no one, least of all Blizz Hunter deisgners, will pay your or argument or those like it any kind, why would they? You’re just wallowing in rage and spite and lashing out at everyone like a bully, people like you are why Hunter’s have bad reputations.
You better bring receipts and examples rather than have your opposition demand it from you, kinda simple actually.
And once more why any points you make are worthless. You just insult and dismiss anyone who disagrees with you or who doesn’t read your mind.
I do.
blink blink blink wait wait WAIT LMAO YOU’RE SERIOUSLY CLAIMING I CANT SAY IVE SEEN OTHER SURVIVAL HUNTERS IN GAME UNLESS I’M ACTUALLY PLAYING SURVIVAL AT THE TIME OMG THIS MADE ME LAUGH FOR REAL.
Omg Thankies for that, that’s hilarious. And just further everything how detached you are from, well, everything.
Again, people are allowed to play more than one class, you should try it some time, you might actually have fun.
I am since you didn’t post proof until you weee “attacked” on it. Aka called out, the bare minimum.
And I’d say you’re projecting since that phrase makes no sense here, you’re the one angry and throwing insults cause someone isn’t agreeing with you in your need to be petty and hateful.
By monitoring updates on them, other classes, and the GM’s overall?
I followed the blue posts and Wowhead collections, I didn’t just stick to one single thread, let me guess it would have more of your “opinions” in it?
“How dare anyone play more than 1 class, people should be banned from doing that!” Is how you sound.
Someone who enjoys it?
You keep saying that.
Tactician says hello.
raider IO covers Raiding from what’s trawled, not the game over.
And more addressing your necro, if you make a claim YOU back it up. “Brooke’s finally eventually provided receipts after being pressed on it!” Is not the back pat you think it is.
What’s even more telling about those statistics is Marksmanship has more players than Survival even though MM’s tuning is terrible right now.
I’ll repeat it again for people who miss/wilfully ignore it: most specs don’t need best-in-the-game damage to achieve middle-of-the-pack representation. If SV needs to be overtuned to see play that means the DESIGN is bad and it’s not enough to patch it up with mere TUNING.
I Pre 9.2.5 SV hunter had better design. Tier sets forced worst game play design you can imagine. Over capping heavily on resources to get a proc. They took away cluster which was amazing design for extra AOE damage, and gave us FOTE that does wet noodle damage
They come up in these threads literally all the time. If someone doesn’t know or isn’t informed, I link them.
Example:
Otherwise I will mention them in passing because, to be frank, this is all mostly common knowledge on the Hunter forum.
You’re desperate to set up an argument that says I’m avoiding confrontation and making claims without proof. That doesn’t work when I’ve literally posted proof. Not having posted it in the first post here doesn’t matter. I wasn’t talking to you in that post, I was talking to people who were aware of the real situation. When you made it clear that you were unaware/uninformed, I linked them. I shouldn’t have to because WCL parse counts are a well-known source of information everyone relies on, but I linked them anyway.’.
Repeating this is tiresome so I’m not going to address it any more. The data has been linked, it’s done and dusted. You were uninformed and wrong, to no one’s surprise. Repeatedly shouting “you need to prove your claims!!!” after proof has literally been posted has to be one of the most transparently desperate and pathetic arguments I’ve ever seen here, and it comes across as blatant projection to distract from the fact that you have no data to go on but rather just your own anecdotes.
Forget mythic raiding: you haven’t even done Normal. You’re literally talking about world questing at best, maybe some LFR. You’re talking about areas of the game you have minimal to no experience in.
This is not to shame anyone for not wanting to raid. But if you’re going to talk about SV’s representation in PvE and PvP, a) you’d better not base your argument on personal experience rather than data, and b) if you did do that… you’d better have some personal experience to begin with.
The screenshot was obviously WCL. It’s how their spec data tables on the default view have looked since the site was created ~8 years ago. The only way to not know it was WCL is if you had never seen WCL before. After all, why would you have seen it? You don’t raid.
Tone policing
I don’t insult and dismiss people just for disagreeing with me. I insult and dismiss people who have nothing to go on and try to speak with authority on things they know nothing about.
Lol? The point was that was supposedly your main class for a significant amount of time yet you seemingly did no content on it.
Achievements are account-bound, you know. So it’s notable that you have few PvE achievements and the ones you do have are mostly from way past when the content is current. You also have very few PvP achievements. Again I’m not going to fault anyone for playing casually, but it’s evident you do very little group content in this game so you’re not in a place to pretend your personal experience in terms of SV’s popularity amount to anything at all.
If you care about personal experience so much, here’s mine and you can check my armory to verify. I’ve done hundreds of M+ and epic battlegrounds. That’s accessible content even for casuals. Survival is the least-common spec I see by far. It’s regular to go into epic BGs and see 10-15 Hunters or more with just 0-1 SV Hunters.
Ironically the one place you do see SV more often is in arenas i.e. more hardcore content. I don’t speak from experience there but rather the data. It’s not an amazingly popular spec or anything but it’s at least on the radar in arenas. So it’s not like the spec is amazingly popular with casual players while hardcore players avoid it. If anything it’s the opposite; casual players are probably engaging with it less than hardcore players.
Projecting means accusing someone else of mistakes/flaws that actually apply to yourself. It’s a way of distracting and stalling. It can be conscious or subconscious. When you say I don’t bring proof of my claims to the discussion, you’re saying that because you don’t have proof for your own claims so instead of having to explain that you just project it to me instead as a distraction.
It doesn’t seem like you monitor updates well since your take is as surface-level as “Hunters must be good because they got a lot of blue posts a few months back”.
If you did you would know about the shortcomings of the changes and updates.
Pop quiz: can you name the useless stat that Blizzard at one point put as a talent node on our base class tree?
It’s not about playing more than one class. It’s about trying to give takes on Hunters while being extremely uninformed/disengaged about Hunters.
Nope: an ephemerally interested melee player who only occasionally dabbles in the Hunter class, like I said before you awkwardly broke this part up into different lines. Survival is designed as a melee player’s alt rather than a hunter player’s main. You can even see this with WoW influencers; those that have a lot of personal experience with Hunters like Bellular, Preach, and Izen Hart have been more critical of melee SV, while those that come mainly from melee mains with less experience with Hunters are more supportive of it like Asmongold and Marcelian.
There are dedicated Hunters that like the spec, for sure, but by and large it’s a spec for melee players to play around with on their Hunter alts rather than a third option for Hunters. Hazzikostas himself outlined it this way in that interview I linked earlier.
Yes Jinday is literally a fan of melee Survival. You can see this from his post history. He’s typically been very fanboyish about the spec and critical of ranged Survival.
He literally linked to M+ statistics. You seriously need to stop talking about things you know nothing about because you evidently just assumed it was about raiding based on the name of the website.
Ive been enjoying SV hunter as my main class/spec since Legion and that is not about to change. People gonna hate on it, but thankfully there is plenty of other classes/specs to go around. I ain’t stopping on account of other people’s opinion.
The spec feels good to play for those who enjoy it.
This is circular reasoning. Of course if people enjoy it the playstyle is good, and for those whom the playstyle is good it’s enjoyable. The problem is very few people enjoy it or find it good to play.
People like Nozohash will blissfully ignore this and pretend everything is fine because they think it helps the spec’s image, but ironically this means there’s less pressure to actually improve the spec.
P.S. People aren’t just hating on it for the hell of it, you know. There’s hate because it represents a colossal waste of effort and portential. It’s the single most reworked spec yet it consistently comes up short in actually appealing to any significant amount of players, and it replaced a formerly very popular and low-maintenance spec. I’ve spoken to Hunters who would rather the spec be deleted entirely rather than floundering for years on end and soaking up countless hours of development. I don’t go that far but I’d rather they’d cut the nonsense and go back to something that worked, and worked well. Chances are most of the melee SV mains would be fine with a ranged version regardless. Melee to ranged isn’t so much a dealbreaker as ranged to melee, not least because ranged specs can also fight in melee.
Clearly you’ve not spoken to all of them. Sure ranged survival may have been fun in its time, but im alright with it being changed around to what it is now. Sure, many people who play hunter always liked the ranged aspect, well, thankfully they still got two different specs to enjoy that on. Might seem like circular reasoning to you, but that doesn’t invalidate the “few” of us who do enjoy it so much we’ve made it our main.
Like I said in another thread, you’re not the high authority on hunters, you’re just a player same as all of us, regardless of your claims. Feel free to enjoy ranged survival on classic! Meanwhile I am gonna keep enjoying melee survival hunter because people’s opinions don’t pay my subscription to this game or my enjoyment from this spec/class.
I literally see more Survival players than MM players in dungeons, lfr, pvp, mythic plus, etc. Also you dont and will never speak for the playerbase no matter how much you think you do.
If I was a new player and seen you as a focus for ranged gameplay, I would still continue to avoid playing it.
I could make a thread about hunter pets and you would somehow find a way to derail it to being about how much you hate MSV so, yes they do.
LOL no
There is only like 2 million of us left and you just look at raid logs nothing further. Meanwhile the greatest hunter player in the game is ironically enough Survival and I know that burns you deeply.
You speak in an echo chamber, anyone dealing with you long enough knows this.
Again You will pretty much never encounter someone in game whining about the spec like you think they all do.
You conversate with lvl 10 alts on the forums, or people logged into their warrior alts.
I have spoke to hunters who love the spec and you desperately try and shut them down because its against your narrative. You are basically The Young Turks of the hunter class.
Because all of the player played that spec in one patch from 7 years ago
You said otherwise like 2 weeks ago. Again, flip flop Magikarp
You have zero idea how the spec even plays considering most of the time, we dont even stay in melee. Just grow up already little dude and put the legos away. Its almost 2023 and Santa isnt going to give you MM 2.0
because it’s a ridiculous proposition in the first place, you’re arguing “well it feels bad to play to me personally…” so there’s not much room for discussion about that, if you don’t like it then you don’t like it. and then it turns into “x amount of people dont like melee hunter” well how many, bepples? “numerous.” there is no good discourse that can come about this besides endless mudslinging back and forth. it’s tiring. it’s tedious. i and the other people who enjoy sv obviously enjoy hunters and also enjoy playing melee. the only alternative is unholy dk and unholy is…uh…it sure is something
I agree and confirm all of that as well. Ive seen quite a lot more suvival hunters around then MM. Lots of BM too, but way more survival than some nay-sayers might think.
If you feel angry that you have people calling for your favourite spec to be changed, just remember that many people lost their favourite spec (and, in some cases, most of their enjoyment with the game; I know people who quit over it) just so your new favourite could be made.
They’re not the same. This does not make it fine, especially when most DPS specs in the game are melee so melee players already have plenty of options. If you like ranged weapons Hunters are the ONLY option, so it was never a good idea to take that away for yet another melee.
No, it’s not just circular reasoning to me. It’s objectively circular reasoning. “The spec feels good to play for those who enjoy it” is a circular and therefore meaningless statement. It fails to address the fact that the spec is broadly unenjoyable. Most people avoid it.
There are also many pressing criticisms from people who like the idea of melee SV because, to be frank, the DF design sucks. It’s tree choices are uninteresting, the layout is nonsensical, and the resulting playstyle is dull and repetitive. Even ignoring the melee flaw. 60% of the time you spend in the rotation will be Mongoose Bite and its window mechanic, and most of the rest will be Kill Command + resets. The one fun and unique ability, Wildfire Bomb, is taking a backseat this time. 6 years and this is the best they could come up with. Shameful.
Maybe it can be fun for people who’s PvP experience looks like this, but most people who have spent any amount of time with the spec are giving it poor reviews.
We saw this same dynamic play out in Legion; a terrible playstyle with no real overarching vision becoming avoided by most Hunters and requiring more heavy reworking, despite a fringe niche of players swearing up and down that it’s God’s gift to WoW. Hell, those people are still here to this day insisting everything was fine and good even after the iteration so obviously failed that they had to discard it immediately.
Well one version of SV (Ranged) clearly worked, and it worked well. People liked it. You didn’t get these massive arguments springing up on the forums all the time nor did you get endless pressure for more and more reworking, because the spec wasn’t dysfunctional like melee SV.
But you can still go enjoy melee SV if you want. You don’t need to spend time here justifying it if my comments don’t matter to you. Go in game and play it… to whatever extent, because TBQH it doesn’t look like you even play that character very much at all.
No, that’s not my argument. The spec has been reviewed poorly by many people. Here’s Marcelian’s video on it, and remember these people usually like melee SV a lot:
In a game with hundreds of thousands of players any spec, no matter how niche the concept or how poor the design/execution, will see some level of support. The existence of people that like Survival doesn’t excuse Survival from scrutiny. If we say that it does then we have to back to the fact that way more people played and enjoyed ranged Survival.
This isn’t a “live and let live” situation. They replaced one spec with another so the onus on Blizzard is to prove that was a good decision. So far they haven’t and it’s been a long time now. At this point it’s just turned out to be an enormous waste of time and resources on something not a whole lot of people like. When they could have done literally nothing at all and achieved a better result something went badly wrong along the way.
