Who is this “we” you speak of?
I disagree…why does a timer dictate trial and error…willingness and pursuit…time and effort. That is the mainstay of MMORPG (atleast the classic versions of many.) Completeing something quickly and efficiently shoukd be the intrinsic reward for that group. Completeing the content at the difficulty level regardless of time, effort, waiting 20min every pull for lust…shouldn’t matter.
If my group wants to take 3 weeks at 4 hours a dungeob to build a key to 15…so what. Your group bangs out a 15 key in 30 min…great. In the end you gear faster, parse better, and have more time for other things in game…congratulations your better, do other things. Timers should never dictate gameplay for players. We don’t know people’s handicaps, physical and/or mental, and they are playing a fantasy game to wscape their reality.
So I also agree, timer is pointless and alienates many players. IMO, timer should count upwards…if completed within say 20 or 30min…you can earn extra rewards…faster key progression or cosmetics…thus allows all players the chance at any lvl of skill to.invest time or be carried regardless of time to “complete” their fantasy, to tackle the “harder” content. They feel rewarded. You have you T78 gear for weeks or months…they finally go it, but they got it and feel good and resub. Where is the loss here…because your fragile ego cant handle someone doing something you did 45x faster…wtf cares…you did 45x faster…you bragged for weeks/months about a digital piece of fantasy that won’t matter next patch anyways.
Hey, just asking for those statistics since you’re so certain that the majority of the players don’t like M+. Out of all the 12 mil. or whatever people playing wow atm, please post the survey results.
And ofc, I agree with certain points. Its not content. But they’re so lazy, are they really willing to work on new content? Like for example the new patch for S4, we get new dungeons? Nope, its the ones from older expacs.
I don’t think that they’re forcing you to do it. You can raid with raid gear. It gives you an edge but its not absolutely compulsory. Not like if you don’t do the pre-requisites for a raid, you can’t enter it. That’s what you’re making it sound like. Gotta do 8 clears weekly to enter the raid. Either get the skill or get the gear, your choice. You don’t have to be like everyone and do it just because they are. Find like minded players and simply use raid only gear then.
Also, no. I am not interested in raiding to get raid gear and do mythics. Raids were a wipe fest, pvp was a toxic clowfiesta. I am happy with mythics, take that away and I am not playing this game anymore. So I gotta disagree with you there.
Um what?! WoW is barely hovering over 1 mil players for a lot of SL. Blizz wishes they had 12 mil subs again. The problem is most players aren’t subbed to WoW year round anymore so there are extreme dips in sub counts. People buy the expansion play 1-2 months then quit.
Yes they are because the great vault and progression is being centered around these toxic systems. You want to upgrade gear you have to get rating in either M+ or Arena which is bad for the game. Those modes should be for competition not gearing.
Esports has really ruined the game and most player could care less about it. Not sure why Blizz is so invested in the AWC or MDI when they both have failed. People want to play an MMO again and not be forced into these activities.
That wasn’t the point though! I was asking you about the statistics based on the surveys of whatever current players that they have or that they don’t; who quit because they didn’t like mythics. My point here was that if mythics were really the reason people were unsubbing, you think that they’d have them around? When you unsub. it asks you for your reasons and they have these statistics. But you don’t. Its a company to make money, you really think if mythics were the reason they were losing subs and losing money, they’d keep them going? 
So you’re wrong with this part.
No, you don’t. You can use raiding gear to raid. I have people in my guild who simply use raid gear to raid with and they do alright. They don’t have an edge like the M+ geared players do but they’re able to handle it just fine as well as get upgrades from the other M+ geared players if they get drops from the raid which they can use.
Then tell me this, supposing there was no m+ gear anymore. You think that things will be fine? At that time, not only will the less skilled players not have the gear to carry them across in content they have no business being in. But also, there will be huge competition among raiders for raiding gear. The raid progression will slow down a lot more. Not being able to simply get gear from m+. I mean, this was how it was back in TBC. If you like this, then you have the option of playing TBC, which you are. So I don’t see what the problem is, you do you and let the ones who enjoy M+ do those. Isn’t everyone getting what they enjoy lol
As for esports, I think that they’ve always been stingy with their rewards. Compare League’s championships to Wow’s and it feels drab in comparison. But having said all this, I’d like to ask you a question. What does an MMO mean to you, what would an ideal MMO be like to you?
I am not sure what the functional difference between counting up and counting down is, but if that makes people feel better then sure.
Did you get the survey asking what “we” wanted? I know I didn’t, but Abomb seems so sure about what we want…
1 Like
The problem is that because the option is there, people are obligated to do it on some level. Everything you don’t do is an advantage willingly given to someone else. It’s easy to invoke, “oh, but that only applies to hardcore players” but it does effect raiders of every stripe.
I just looked at that thread, seems more people are disagreeing with the OP of that thread? Just like the majority of people in this thread disagree with it’s OP - I don’t follow your logic?
Then you just find like minded players to do it with. If you’re raiding, find guildmates who are fine with not having mythic+ gear. I know that mine is chill and its not just this rogues guild but another guild that I play with on weekends. We have m+ gear but multiple players don’t, we don’t mind them using raiding gear. And even funnel them raid upgrades.
You only feel obligated if you’re feeling like you’re not carrying your weight. Or you’re there in that guild or that raid because you only want to see content. You’re not there for making friends or getting to know people. And for me, I’m there to raid not because I enjoy raiding but because of the people there. So I get what you mean from your perspective and maybe that’s true for a lot of people. But conversely, removing M+ would make things even more difficult. A lot of people that we can carry with M+ gear in raids, we won’t be able to anymore. A lot of people who use M+ gear to make up for their lack of skills won’t be able to anymore. So what do you do when people can’t access content anymore? Because people can’t carry them anymore.
I know that if I was in one of my friends shoes who only used raid gear. And who was not very good at this game. AND could not be carried anymore. Well, if I can’t raid with my friends anymore then maybe I wouldn’t be playing this game anymore. Right? So you’re just depriving people of being able to enjoy more of the content that they’d otherwise not be able to. Ofc, we could do legacy raids but how long before it gets boring. I know for a fact that it gets boring and people drop like flies because one of my BFA guilds died doing just that. We didn’t have M+ geared players, most only showed up for raids and weren’t very skilled so, yeah. Few left for FF14. Some went to other guilds etc. etc. It was an amazingly friendly guild too, one of my favorites. Was very sad about it dying out.
him and the OP lol
2 Likes
Listen I offered an olive branch. Raid can stay as long as we don’t have to go in there. Stop trying to pass Raids off as content and make us do raids as part of our chores to gear up. That is why it’s toxic and destroying the community and game on multiple levels.
Raids should be a competition mode only where you compete for Seasonal titles and xmogs just like Arena. These competition modes shouldn’t reward ANY gear. That way the players can just avoid them instead of being forced into these activities with a great deal of hate. (common sense right)
The game progression is all messed up and it doesn’t have to be. Just reward players valor let them buy BiS items at the vendor. I see a game where hopefully they remove the painful chore list of activities and we can just play the game how we want. Avoiding things like raid and hopefully the Devs will create actual content instead of slapping fat bosses on boring empty castles.
It’s not complicated.
Again there is nothing wrong with doing raids for a few weeks but then we would like to be FINISHED with them and move on. Ideally 99% of my play time isn’t stuck inside a dumb raid. I want to finish them so I can begin playing the rest of the game.
2 Likes
This game has a lot of easy angered, or childish folk. I just hope I can try M+ in the intended way and see the ‘fun’ others do. I hate pugging so it is why I have missed out on a lot.
1 Like
Hopefully you get a chance to, it is a ton of fun with not-pugs.
1 Like
This may be a shocker to a few people… But we would blast dungeons just like m+ since BC. Super huge pulls, coordinated CDs. Except now, the game tells us how long we take instead of us having to calculate it.
For m+, my best trinkets come from raid. Should we delete raid so I don’t feel forced to participate in it?
1 Like
Nobody is forcing anyone to do m+. Dunno what game you are playing, but its totally optional.
M+ is the downfall of wow? Oh i didnt realize optional content was the downfall of wow. I guess if were talking optional content lets remove world quests and dailies and old transmog farming and mounts too. Oh and raids, cant forget yo remove that.
As long as none of those ideas come from your head, itll be a fine expansion.
1 Like
For real. The core concept of the game is solid. They just need to get out of their own way with the super unnecessary barriers like Torghast, patch based grinds, and locked borrowed power. Sprinkle in a couple more than 2 class devs so we can get balance tuning more than once every 6 months and things will be looking up.
This is all i care about. Ill deal with garbage systems and grindy dailies and world quests, bad dungeon design and over tuned raids with a smile on my face if DH finally sees some love. Obviously thay extends to all classes but for me its DH. DH needs a complete rework at this point, and has been ignored since SL prepatch.
He lost credibility with me after the first hour or so.