I didn’t know Ian said that… and it’s about time. Have any of the devs called her evil? I know she’s a favorite of Kosak, and Alex Afrasiabi has outright said Sylvanas isn’t evil.
He isn’t part of Blizzard anymore apparently, but Steve Danuser recently confirmed a redemption by saying that it will be nuanced and that she won’t just do one good thing and be immediately forgiven (yea sure).
Basically she won’t be evil after Chains of Domination anymore and that her redemption is something that will unfold in the future, but seemingly she won’t make it up to those that she wronged because they were already obliterated after an eternity of torture.
My guess is that she will help us against the jailer (a completely irrelevant threat that has been introduced just to be defeated) and then be absolved of all her other crimes and return to the Horde as if nothing ever happened.
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From that, it looks like Sylvanas will escape justice for her actions.
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I think that has been clear from the very day Teldrassil was burned, it just annoys me that apparently the Horde isn’t guilty at all, and that Sylvanas guilt will just be swept under the rug by her helping to defeat the jailer (which I couldn’t care less about, he hasn’t done anything bad to us.)
The Night Elves were also denied any meaningful resolution because their souls were obliterated and Teldrassil won’t be regrown because they want it to remain meaningful (from Blizzcon Q&A), while at the same time denying them justice or a future beyond being forged into weapons of the jailer.
Furthermore, they also only ever got one of their three zones back that they had prior to BfA.
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Riiiiight, if that’s the way you read that statement, then I can see I’m wasting my time here. Either there’s no explaining it to you or (my first choice) you’re trolling. I’m out.
That was Travis Day, and it was before BfA started. Alex Afrasiabi said that burning Teldrassil was “in character” for her, in the same sentence where he casually retconned the Wrathgate to make it her doing.
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Thank you for telling me that, I’ll look into this further.
Here are the links if you want to see them.
Travis Day (4/5/2018):
https://www.invenglobal.com/articles/4755/explore-claim-resources-and-battle-for-your-faction-world-of-warcraft-interview
“Because Sylvanas is not evil. In the story for her, it’s much more. She’s definitely aggressive, and she definitely believes in having power and control, but I also think that she does take seriously the representation of the Horde. She has a different perspective which is that the Horde will never be safe until the Alliance is wiped out.”
Alex Afrasiabi (9/11/2018):
https://www.eurogamer.net/amp/2018-11-08-world-of-warcraft-and-the-masterplan-for-sylvanas
“I’ve heard these discussions on the internet about ‘she’s going off the rails’, but is she? I’ve been writing Sylvanas personally since 2006, and this is pretty much - the Wrathgate and the Blight and the Forsaken - in character. Those were all under Sylvanas’ orders. What we’re seeing now is an escalation of the plans Sylvanas has, clearly, and we’re in the middle of that.”
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Thank you for that, you’ve saved me some work 
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I totally get that you want revenge against Sylvanas; but what is this crazy talk?
Unless you think Sylvanas is the one who took out the arbiter and then somehow charmed the Jailer into doing everything he has done… this is a pretty bizarre position to take.
Oh, did the jailer burn down Teldrassil and commit genocide against the Night Elves? Last time I checked that was Sylvanas, and introducing a scapegoat like the Jailer as her master doesn’t make her innocent.
She also knew very well what would happen to those souls
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I’m not saying either one of them are innocent. The Jailer is hardly a “scapegoat”, though- and I think that is what Danuser was trying to point out, that it wasn’t going to be that way.
Well, but it doesn’t exactly give me any feeling of justice when Sylvanas helps us defeat some newly introduced villain and is then completely absolved of her crimes and returns to the Horde as if nothing ever happened after being celebrated a hero.
All that while the innocents she killed were tortured for an eternity and then obliterated, while the remaining few Night Elves still don’t have a home and are still missing most of their zones.
If this is our justice for Teldrassil, having those that were killed being obliterated after having been tortured and the one responsible glorified, then that’s some next level hostile writing.
The jailer is only there so that Sylvanas has someone to turn against to be absolved of her crimes, and so that she can say that “the jailer made me do it.”
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I’m seriously struggling to imagine a scenario where the horde would welcome Sylvanas back.
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Just wait until even the Alliance (or Anduin rather, since he speaks for the entire Alliance) celebrates Sylvanas as a hero…
Also, most of the Horde loved Sylvanas until she abandoned them. Either she returns to the Horde or she becomes a neutral mary sue character after SL, but I’m convinced that she won’t get out of the story or the spotlight.
The mistake you seem to be making is that you think that something would have to make sense to happen, but the writers don’t really care about that. I’d be amazed if after Shadowlands Sylvanas isn’t just back to the Horde as if nothing ever happened, and Teldrassil will just sink further into forgottenness
Atleast then I can also delete the rest of my Horde characters if it would mean that I have to play the same faction that welcomes Sylvanas and her actions.
Hello yes this is known as the “Lordaeron fan experience” from TFT to…checks notes forever?
Darnassus and Teldrassil was a place. All places really are is a memory; an intersection of experiences and sensations with a sense of geography attached. Often literally in many cases.
I think some people forget those memories are of an entirely fictitious place that was and is designed to convince you to pay it $15 a month, and to a frankly disconcerting degree.
But I get it. I’ve compared seeing Lordaeron trashed by the Alliance as watching Blizzard smash a favorite childhood toy and then looking at me like I’m supposed to clap. Because I’ve actual memories attached to Tirisfal and the Undercity, some of which are intertwined with memories of people I knew IRL that have similarly become dust in the wind.
Only in my case they wanted me to not feel bad about it because they smashed some other guy’s toy first then said it was my fault.
You seem to be mad about some RTS maps. And, like I’ve fond memories attached to some Halo 3 maps and some fighting game arenas where I knew some BS exploits. But that’s what I’d call them. A map. Not a place.
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Night Fae Covenant quest, at 15 minutes and 55 seconds in:
I’m aware of the quest, and it kinda backs up what I was trying to say. “(the jailer) hasn’t done anything to us” sounds a little crazy, considering he probably made that amalgamation thing.
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You can talk to a dragon and go back to Undercity any time. There is no equivalent for Capital City.
It’s also not just about the location, but also about what that location symbolizes in the narrative arc. It symbolizes heartbreak, betrayal, and the most devastating loss ever inflicted on humanity, especially given its central history in the Alliance narrative.
I’m not upset that these things happened, and in fact I’m happy they did. A story making you feel sad is just as legitimate and artful as one that makes you feel proud. The problem for me is that pathos has never been adequately represented Alliance-side. In fact, they seemed to have made an attempt to shimmy it off to the Horde’s side.
That’s what I meant earlier when I said “It sucks to be victims and have bad things happen to you, only for it to be used as a vehicle to advance someone elses narrative.” It’s the exact same thing that Blizzard is starting to do with Night Elves; the victims of the tragedy that was the destruction of Teldrassil are being set up to have the impact of their suffering explored via the Horde instead of via the Alliance. Ditto with other Horde victims like Derek Proudmoore and Calia Menethil. I half expect Anduin to join the Horde next now that he’s being subjected to extreme suffering.
You say you resent being told not to feel bad about losing a place you cared about because someone elses toy got smashed first. I understand that.
But for Lordaeron fans in the Alliance, the situation since Warcraft 3 was akin to losing your toy and being told you shouldn’t feel bad because it was never legitimately yours anyway. It’s one thing to lose a home, it’s another to lose a home and have your memories of it treated as illegitimate. That I think is what grinds my gears the most about the “True people of Lordaeron” shtick that Blizzard started leaning into in Cata. It certainly bothered (and still bothers) me more than simply not having Capital City anymore.
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The amalgamation calls out Sylvanas by name.
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