You actually have no idea what youre talking about. its very much the opposite, horde travel in smaller groups than alliance in all but a few exceptions. And even if you were correct which you’re absolutely not, the alliance outnumber us so bad in this server that even when we start fighting a smaller group it is inevitable for more alliance groups to join in the fight before it ends because the 5:1 ration in a world that was designed for 5000 players now holds 15000 players, and 80% of them are alliance. I’ve been chain CCed by players that are about to lose a fight and just begin playing the “delay until another alliance stumbles by” tactic.
People are normally completely burnt-out long before they hit Rank 14. The last few weeks is drudgery. Getting rank 14 is pretty exciting and can reinvigorate their desire to PvP just to show off, but it rarely lasts long.
I’ve only had one guy I ranked with that continued to PvP heavily even after hitting rank 14, but he was the one who ran the premades, and I think he more enjoyed running the premades than actually PvP’ing. Plus I think he was worried that if he didn’t run the premades it would divide the PvP community and create chaos/infighting.
Again, it depends on where you are. What seems like large alliance groups aren’t organized PvP groups, but rather there are often so many alliance in an area that they end up grouping up when they see fighting…
For instance, I was doing UBRS earlier on my mage, and when I came into BRM there was a horde 10-man outside the UBRS portal trying to camp that platform and blocking alliance from coming in.
At first there were only a few alliance, but more and more alliance showed up just because they were on their way to dungeons there. Within a few minutes alliance outnumbered horde 2 to 1 and we blasted the horde group.
From the perspective of the horde they probably thought we were an organized alliance PvP group who called in reinforcements, in reality no one said anything, and from my UBRS group only two of us were there.
There are so many alliance coming into BRM all the time that the horde will get overrun if they create a bottleneck there. But in places like WPL horde can have free reign.
Actually it isn’t. In vanilla most people PvP to get PvE gear, especially rank 14.
And it works the other way as well, almost all the best PvP gear is from PvE.
Which in some ways is a good thing. Because PvE’ers are forced to PvP, and PvP’ers are forced to raid. In later expansions they made it where PvP’ers never needed to raid, and raiders never needed to PvP. And that actually killed the community.
This is very true. Black Dragonflight server, 2005-6 - 1 million honor per week to hit R11. The ‘premade’ team i was involved in never had an actual leader. Just a group of players from a few guilds. We heavily ran WSG/AB because we enjoyed it more than raiding at the time. Waitlist addons were used - you could hand that list off to other players who would the go on to lead more premades.
This group was responsible for creating multiple HWL. Most of the players attained R8-R12. We enjoyed coming up against full raid geared premades and actually competing with them. I have many fond memories of seeing guild tags of the like of an alliance Naxx clearing guild coming for some after raid pvp.
We didnt que dodge, we steamrolled the pugs but we didnt gy camp them. We played to win.
I can tell you that more honor rankings came from mark turnins than from the actual honor recieved for the bg win/players killed. This is how we kind of organised it - farm 100 marks from ab/wsg each, then organised groups to go an win AV - something that was quite a feat in the day before cross realm bg’s were a thing. The same AV could last for days before it was completed.
No it is not. Any serious pvp player knows the amount of stam on the pvp gear is more beneficial to survive. You will have a better chance at pvp survival in the lower blue rank pvp gear than in MC/ONY gear. Having early raid gear helps beat those players in dung blue gear sure, but you wont see players clearing AQ40/Naxx to go and pvp in any seriousness.
No they are not. All of ther gear aquired in the form of pve content will allow you to go and clear a higher tier of raid content.
Maybe it was 2 seperate groups waiting for the rest of the party to arrive. Killing the enemy faction at a portal is just a way to pass the time. Maybe those horde members were getting killed from thorium point to the brm entrance by all those extra alliance that showed up?
These things go both ways.
I rerolled pve, pvp was just not for me.
1 Like
It takes alot for someone to admit that.
/salute
For healing classes all the PvP gear is worthless. And the PvP gear doesn’t have as much stam on it as people think. Half of warlock T1 has more stam than the epic PvP gear.
Plus the PvP sets are only six pieces of gear, every other piece of PvP gear comes from a raid.
Also, the T2.5 sets and the T3 sets are absolutely better than the epic PvP set for every class.
Maybe I shouldn’t say “force”. What I really mean is, a lot of the PvP gear is BiS in PvE. Most of the people trying to get R14 will be rogues/warrior, because GM weapons are BiS pretty much till Naxx.
Including an arms warrior?
HWL
| Strength | 120 | 16 | 28 | 18 | 18 | 20 | 20 |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Agility | 42 | 14 | 16 | 12 | |||
| Stamina | 165 | 33 | 34 | 23 | 24 | 23 | 28 |
| Armor | 4,087 | 875 | 719 |
Plus 5% crit / 3% hit / rage reduction on hamstring +
Set Bonuses
Wearing more pieces of this set will convey bonuses to your character.
-
2 pieces: [+20 Stamina.]
-
3 pieces: [Reduces the cooldown of your Intercept ability by 5 sec.]
-
6 pieces: [+40 Attack Power.]
VS.
T 2.5
| Strength | 137 | 34 | 29 | 21 | 33 | 20 |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Agility | 96 | 24 | 18 | 17 | 21 | 16 |
| Stamina | 140 | 38 | 34 | 23 | 24 | 21 |
| Armor | 3,783 | 985 | 739 | 604 | 796 | 659 |
Plus 2% hit / 24 defense
Set Bonuses
Wearing more pieces of this set will convey bonuses to your character.
-
3 pieces: [Decreases the rage cost of all Warrior shouts by 35%.]
-
5 pieces: [Increase the Slow effect and damage of Thunder Clap by 50%.]
PvP gear is worthless for raid healing sure. Raid healing you want mana regen and throughput. Pvp healing you want crit and survivability.
Dont forget the bg rep rewards. Trinkets. Weapons. Shields. Rings. Necks. Cloaks. Bracers. AB 3pc set for increased movement speed is very useful, nothing quite like kiting a MoM weilding warrior, on a warrior.
In PvP healers generally use their tier gear. The druid PvP set is hybrid-feral, the priest PvP set is for shadowpriests, and the Paladin set just sucks compared to their T2.
The only PvP weapons worth using are the Rank 14 weapons, and if you have them you’re done PvP’ing anyway. And for every other slot raid gear is far superior.
The AB run-speed doesn’t stack with the standard run-speed enchant.
Galdin you are comparing 6-piece PvP set to 5-piece T2.5. Compare apples to apples.
Assuming that pve player is min maxing to raid naxx, they will take the stats on the boots > the run speed. This allows you to also take the stats and have the run speed. They will put crusader on their weapon instead of a weapon chain.
The Unstoppable Force
Item Level 65
Binds when picked up
Unique
Two-Hand Mace
175 - 292 Damage Speed 3.80
(61.45 damage per second)
+19 Strength
+15 Stamina
Durability 120 / 120
Requires Level 60
Equip: [Improves your chance to get a critical strike by 2%.]
Chance on hit: [Stuns target for 1 sec.]
V
Earthshaker
Item Level 66
Binds when picked up
Two-Hand Mace
175 - 263 Damage Speed 3.50
(62.57 damage per second)
Durability 120 / 120
Requires Level 60
Chance on hit: [Knocks down all nearby enemies for 3 sec.]
Equip: [+22 Attack Power.]
Sell Price: 11 36 31
Dropped by: Magmadar
Drop Chance: 19.32%
V
(Note weapon skill means nothing in pvp)
Obsidian Edged Blade
Item Level 68
Binds when picked up
Two-Hand Sword
176 - 264 Damage Speed 3.40
(64.71 damage per second)
+42 Strength
Durability 120 / 120
Requires Level 60
Equip: [Increased Two-handed Swords +8.]
Sell Price: 12 57 68
HWL gear gives a larger health pool, higher total attack power, increased chance to crit, increased utility from cheaper hamstring and less intercept cooldown.
By the way, this is only true for those that only play classic solely for the raiding community. This is not the majority of Classic players in my experiance so far.
To be fair, my dude, I am posting on a retail character because my mains are in Europe.
Actually run-speed is the best PvE boot enchant for Naxx and most other raids.
Your list was crap because it added up the stats of all six pieces of the PvP set and compared them to the T2.5 set which is only 5 pieces.
For a fair comparison you need to subtract the stats of the gloves, and calculate the crit value of agility. If you include the 6-piece PvP set bonus the real stats would be…
T2.5 = 3,783 armor, 140 stamina, 274 attack power, 4.8% crit, 2% hit, +24 defense.
PvP = 3,555 armor, 162 stamina, 240 attack power, 6.1% crit, 3% hit, +0 defense.
The two are close. The PvP gear is better(mainly because +defense is kind of useless in PvP). But I think warrior is literally the only class where the PvP gear is better than T2.5 gear(and not by much).
And keep in mind that the current R14 weapons are the upgraded version. In patch 1.4 the R14 weapons were much worse. The current R14 weapons actually need to be compared to BWL weapons(although no one will have them till phase 3 anyway). Ash’kandi is probably a better PvP weapon overall than the Rank 14 weapon. But the rank 14 one-handers are BiS till Naxx.
Well thank you for correcting your previous statement in regards to all classes
High Warlord’s Greatsword
Item Level 78
Binds when picked up
Two-Hand Sword
235 - 353 Damage Speed 3.80
(77.37 damage per second)
+26 Strength
+41 Stamina
Durability 120 / 120
Requires Level 60
Requires High Warlord Grand Marshal
Equip: [Improves your chance to get a critical strike by 1%.]
Sell Price: 6 3 39
V
Ashkandi, Greatsword of the Brotherhood
Item Level 81
Binds when picked up
Two-Hand Sword
229 - 344 Damage Speed 3.50
(81.86 damage per second)
+33 Stamina
Durability 120 / 120
Requires Level 60
Equip: [+86 Attack Power.]
“The initials A.L. are etched on the hilt.”
Sell Price: 22 85 17
Dropped by: Nefarian
Arms warrior again, in the context of pvp. High stam/crit/ap is the best itemization. Larger top end damage and a slower swing speed for better instant attack damage.
So R14 weap has a better damage range, slower, higher stam and 1% crit better than the best weapon in BWL.
Im my previous statement i simply linked a non R14 pvp reward that is better than what the majority of raiders will be using. Rag weapons are quite rare.
Because of Ash’kandi’s higher DPS, the top-end damage is still pretty close even though Ash’kandi is faster. If I already had Ash’kandi I definitely wouldn’t care about getting Rank 14. Though I would much rather C’thun’s axe over anything. And if I was a rogue I would want C’thun’s dagger.
And as for PvE, again the R14 swords are BiS till Naxx.
The point I was trying to make is, oftentimes the best PvE gear is PvP gear, and the best PvP gear is PvE gear. In vanilla you basically have to raid to be competitive in PvP, and you have to PvP to be competitive in PvE. But it depends on your class. Some classes don’t need PvP at all, while other classes pretty much only need PvP.
But it will NEVER hit as hard as the R14 weap.
True.
[quote=“Redbud-heartseeker, post:96, topic:372283”]
and the best PvP gear is PvE gear
[/quote
Not true.
Not true. Players were able to reach R14, without having set foot in a raid.
Also not true. Guilds cleared Naxx without pvp gear.
Well, Ash’kandi has 34 more ap. I think AP is normalized to 3.3 speed. So you would add ~8 damage to both the bottom and top-end.
So Ash’kandi would actually be 237-352, and R14 is 235-353. So virtually identical damage on hit, and Ash’kandi is higher dps(which is good for any class not a mage).
There is a difference between being able to do Naxx, and being competitive in Naxx. When you’re raiding you aren’t competing against the raid bosses, you’re competing with the other players in the raid(and on warcraftlogs).
And sure, you don’t need to have full BiS to get Rank 14, but when I talk about being competitive in PvP, I’m not talking about getting Rank 14, since pretty much anyone who has 100+ hours a week to play and who can follow simple directions can get rank 14.
But why post in an american forum if your mains are in Europe. There’s a European WoW forum there to discuss the same issues.
normalized_damage = base_weapon_damage + (X * Attack Power / 14)
Ashkandi = 229 - 344 + (3.386/14) or 229 - 344 + 20.27 = 249.27 - 364.27
R14 = 235 - 353 + (3.352/14) or 235 - 353 + 12.26 = 247.26 - 365.26
Ashkandi being higher dps only brings up the lower total damage, the R14 weap still has a higher top end. Note this formula is only used on instant attacks.
Things like your auto attack weapon swing are still based on the actual speed of the weapon. Note that …
base_weapon_damage + weapon_speed * Attack Power / 14
is simply the formula for weapon (white) hit damage. Thinks like hoj/sword spec/wf procs are counted as a normal melee swing, therefore a sword spec proc with a R14 weapon will calculate at 3.8 v 3.5 with AK