this is the weakest tree in the game right now. It is less developed than the first tree six months ago.
Well this is an amazing post. But i will say that Sub needs a complete rework and this talent tree is a complete failure. I know I know shoot me but guys, this is the absolute most disappointing tree in existence. Read the talents with a magnifying glass and you will see what i mean. I was so excited about the deathstalker which will be be my main but looking at it now I know I will be garbage in Raid and M+ compared to warlocks and Monks which by the way HAVE received SO MUCH LOVE. The Rogue Class a whole needs a MASSIVE overhaul by an actual rogue player that has extensive knowledge of the class because blizzard clearly does not. It makes me so sad that you guys are trying so hard to be nice and while admirable it will not help us get the changes we need. They need to get their heads out of their asses and actually work on this class with more than 1 brain cell. Ill just say it on behalf of everyone here. cough cough âBlizzard, please DO YOUR JOB and fix this pile of dogsh*tâ, respectfully.
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That is to be expected because it is a late addition to alpha which soon goes to beta. But I think with proper feedback it can become the best Rogue hero talent tree.
The tree has the most potential regarding thematics and gameplay enhancements if theyre able to change those 3 disgustingly boring talent nodes.
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Weâre pretty late in the Alpha for them to be doing major overhauls so itâs pretty likely things will stay as they are. That saidâŠ
Trickster, Fatebound, and Deathstalker as they are now being the future for Rogue beyond TWW is going to get really ugly really fast. It might be novel for an expansion but the next, and the one after that? Rogue remaining as is with these arbitrary identities being âEvergreenâ?
Yeah Iâm not sure how long thatâs going to last before it becomes another âcombatâ problem.
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Wow, this is is great stuff! I feel like a real hero with the new addition of plague damage!
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I have said as much there is no evidence that these will be evergreen talents. Presumably they will last throughout the saga with the following two expansions that will follow TWW.
If done right I think it can be cool if used creatively. Right now what we are seeing is too simple.
https://www.wowhead.com/news/hero-talents-deep-dive-all-hero-spec-names-revealed-335912
âHero Talents are evergreen self-contained talent trees that bring additional fantasy to your class experience by bringing iconic Warcraft archetypes.â
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They can say it as much as they want but with the way they are designed they do not look like evergreen talents.
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danse macabre is disgusting
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The Evergreen point is great but it also reinforces the comment i had made previously. Deathstalker theme is great. The way its âaimingâ at changing gameplay is great. Sin and Sub having a way to amplify their funnel in the future is great. The real issue is the 3 damage amplifying talent. Sure other talents have some bugs or questionable implementation but those can definitely be made be made great. The other trees in comparison cannot.
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The creative parts will come from the specialization making the call on how they want to amp their kit instead of hijacking it like cold blood secret technique did for us Subtlety rogues in season 1 and season 2.
- Plague damage being a multi-school (nature + shadow) directly amps the specialization stuff.
- There are a crap ton of ways after playing deathstalker a lot that we can get creative on our own instead of âthis talent makes 3 little bombs fall out and x y z happensâ. Much rather prefer us as rogues dictate what we do with our kit and creativity than Y talent meter maid metrics.
- Artifacts, Azerite, Conduits, Corruptions ALL hijacked the kit and people were conditioned over a few years to think that was fun because they read details to fluff up egos and plummet straight into the bin. Too many fotm sell outs rolling Outlaw just because of how it performed. They didnât care for our class, they multiclass and jump ship as opposed to us that show up every day, sharpening our blades, and making plans to gaff some sucker and burn down some houses.
- Many times, you, many others, and I have combatted for core emphasis and it is finally occurring as additions while also buffing the big hitters people love.
These trees will grow and add more tools to them over time and SHOULD remain UNOBSTRUCTIVE to the Class and Specialization toolset talents.
- The power of Deathstalker as it currently is requires thinking and planning instead of 3/2/1 oneshot nonsense from tapping cds (Sunwell forbid we have to think and use finesse). The plague damage does a lot when we look at things respectively from specialization talents and core kit emphasis versus nonsense like gut ripper. Eviscerate does a lot , envenom does a lot (good), ambush + backstab + mutilate are no longer noodle damage but the rogue must remain actively engaged and think (great feeling).
- example: Reading shaman notes (catching up on our enemies) and how they were ticked they couldnât roll how they wanted but some like gimmicky nonsense hijacking but those same individuals get ticked when those overly reliant things are needed. Storm vs Elementalist ( I think is what they were calling it).
More is to come down the line as the tree grows but it should never be some silly stuff we have to rely on.
- It Took this long to get things going back in the right direction. We have been nudged but not gone full swing and that is very healthy for us whether one wants to be mature or not. The addition to gimmicks has to end, the systems hijacking rogue kits (Azerite / Corruption etc) has to end, the emphasis on cool CDs packing proper punch (Kingâs bane + Goremawâs etc) as a SUPPLEMENTARY effect backing up core stuff must return. I can say in full confidence after 200+ hours heavily testing that we are getting dang near close in a NEW way without going back fully to where none of the old stuff would fly as it worked 15 years ago. They married the past with the present and it is definitely engaging and I made my own fun.
Look for the bad, youâll find it. Look for the good, youâll find that too.
- The Evergreen will come from as more of it develops. Peanut butter by itself doesnât make a great sandwich but once the jelly is on it⊠now we are talking. (simple dumb example on purpose for illustrative purposes).
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It is literally the same damage as old find weakness but in a modern way where we are having to think.
- Depending how we build, it is far more reactive, rewarding, and engaging than the old days. Customization in a kill order is a lot of fun and how dynamic we can be depending how an individual defends/ doesnât defend/ or is vulnerable. The same can be said about dungeons as we adapt quickly.
VS shadowpriest who just chuck up dots and do the same damage but itâs because us rogues did a rogue thing that others think it is ridiculous. Paladins hucking hammers all day and gaining fat 20% damage stacks and whatever else they do is fine but a rogue⊠no sirrrr!
looking like a bad expac for assa based on talents alone, im tired of this obsession with empowered envenoms⊠with the rogue rework they turned assa pvp into an aoe cleave bot, but a lot of the early TWW changes and talents look like they want envenom spamming to be the play. with marked for death being gone, its very rare in pvp to envenom while you have the buff. and its a waste to run the talent to get the increased envenom buff timer. deathstalker will be a failed tree if its not changed to mutilate/ambush for mark stacking, you already get spam ccâd when you dance to burst.
rng coin flip tree is just boring and not going to do good in pvp.
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I kinda wish rogues had a ninja katana or gunner\bow spec. Sub is cool and all but i feel like they could do sub\assasination in one single tree with 2 different dps builds.
IDK sub just seems flat, maybe they just need to be stronger but i havent enjoyed my rogue for a while, just lack of improvement imo.
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rogues will suck because you suck? seems legit 
Trickster and Deathstalker have potential if people give feedback.
Fatebound is just going to be a mess so I am not going to even address that tree.
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would love to give feedback but cant post on the feedback forum under TWW development, probably because i dont have alpha access
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They have a feedback thread for trickster under this general rogue section and i was told all comments in those threads are read.
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new dev notes, zero mention of rogues
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