Just so I am sure, Ambush from Stealth is the only way to apply Deathstalker’s Mark. So in a dungeon environment where you may not be dropping combat often, You have to vanish to reapply the mark.
Reading the talents, it says that after consuming 3 marks, or the target dies, your next envenom cast with maximum combo points reapplies the mark. It may just be me playing poorly, But, I am finding that when targets die, the mark doesnt reapply on the next pack/target, when I use a max combo point envenom. It almost feels like if the target dies with a mark on, then I use a Echoing reprimand ability, be it envenom, rupture or crimson tempest, then a max combo point envenom, it doesnt apply the mark.
It feels like any combo point spending abilities, cancel the reapplication of the mark. So after the marked target dies, your next combo point has to be a max point envenom. Also moving pack to pack, it doesnt seem like you can carry your mark. Where you kill a marked target. Then on the next pack, you go to hit a max level envenom and the mark doesnt always carry.
I do believe you may be correct in that if you say…do like a 5 point (anything not envenom) or less than 5 point envenom that it currently feels like you might just be SOL for engaging with the loop until you can restealth.
Whether this is a bug or not, is hard to say. I could see them wanting there to be some incentive to play well and not just make things a gimmie or braindead easy, but aside from requiring a 5 point spender, it should not be possible to get out of the loop of reapplying with spenders, imho.
For assassination, subterfuge just really feels too good not to use and I’d argue it feels pretty bad to not have the old 3 seconds of subterfuge baseline as deathstalker just for the way ambush and mark application works.
Just tested on a dummy and was able to use all charges of the mark, use a 5cp kidney, (no refresh) then a 5cp envenom and get the mark to re-apply without restealthing.
So, if you have the capstone ability, it gives you a 30 second buff when using the last charge of Deathstalker’s mark (or the target dies) to apply marks via the max-combo-point Envenom. If you don’t do it in that 30-second window, you have to do a Stealthed Ambush.
Honestly, they could solve that problem by having Blindside Ambushes also count for that.
If you have the darkest night buff up, and use a 7CP envenom, and it kills the target, it will remove the darkest night buff and not refresh. If that happens, you would need to reapply via ambush.
Assassin needs something to make mark application better…
If not blindside, tie it to garrote? Something…
The only time Deathstalker felt good was when I was just running around questing killing mobs one by one. Other than that, it needs a lot of work.
Garrote should apply it from stealth.
I’m fine with Envenom re-applying it, but it should be on 5+ combo points, and it shouldn’t just go away sometimes like it does.
It definitely needs work to be usable (at least for me and how dungeons normally go for me).
I had some quests - where mobs kept coming and I couldn’t make a single bit of use out of it. You can’t vanish because then the mobs reset, etc. It felt really bad to not be able to get any use out of my hero talents. I switched back to Fatebound.
Yea, I just went to Fatebound because, even playing Deathstalker well, the mark would just not reapply in some cases.
Most likely from this. It also made it difficult when doing normal dungeons, as things are getting blown up so fast a 7cp powered envenom would often kill a mob. It should be a little better in M+ and raid.
There needs to be a better way to apply, remove stacks. If they switch it to blindside ambushes, then it will be challenging to drop all three stacks when you want to. Or maybe add that Ambush while stealth, and Mutilate or ambush after shadowstep applies mark?
This is what I experienced this past weekend. It’s when the last envenom kills the target, the buff does not carry over. While leveling and doing world content, this happens a lot. So much so, that I had to switch to Fatebound.
It’s a huge buzz kill to have hero talents you can’t benefit from.
Deathstalker’s Mark has the same 5 or more combo points conditional wording as Fatebound’s Hand of Fate, which does work with Echoing Reprimand, so it must be a bug.
Subtlety has the marks come from shadow dance along with stealth and shadowstrike. It was an issue in beta where if you constantly used shadowstrike the mark would ramp up and you couldn’t consume the stacks. It does not do this anymore, it will only apply 3 and then consume when the conditions are met. It only goes back to three on applying the mark to something that does not have it, or using the darkest night proc to reapply.
If sub can have a relatively easy time reapplying the mark if lost, I fail to see why assassin can’t. Any builder doing should be fine tbh since it wouldn’t keep the mark ramping up, but just garrote should be fine too.
I stayed away from Echoing Reprimand because of another add to the rotation. I also feel that it slowed me down trying to match up to take advantage of what it offered.
On different note. I just noticed that bone strike is now passive. I went back down that branch now.
I feel like I’m hitting with pillows still.
I’ve been playing with Deathstalker some more, and yes, it has issues. Foremost is that it is reliant on Ambushing from stealth (Blindside procs of Ambush do not count). Which means that for a lot of quests, where interacting with a quest object brings us out of stealth and “summons” an enemy mob, a significant portion of the tree (the focus of it) is unavailable to us.
But even beyond that…
The Darkest Night buff needs to last until it applies Deathstalker’s Mark, not dropping off when a max combo point Envenom kills the target.
Echoing Reprimand finishers need to expend charges of Deathstalker’s Mark, and count as a max combo point Envenom if used with that finisher for reapplying Deathstalker’s Mark.
That it requires a max combo point Envenom rather than a 5+ point Envenom actually calls into question whether taking both Sanguine Stratagem and Deeper Stratagem are effective. That is to say, while a 7-pt Envenom does more damage than a 6-pt Envenom, there is the necessity of getting that 7th combo point in order to reapply Deathstalker’s Mark. I know it’s anecdotal evidence, but I’ve had a number of fights where I’ve hit that 6th combo point, but since I have seven overall, it takes that extra energy and global cooldown to hit the max combo point Envenom.
I strongly suspect that for raid bosses, it will be close to mandatory to talent for the extra charge of Vanish in the rogue tree, simply to ensure that we can keep Deathstalker’s Mark on the raid boss.
Yea. I just think They should make blindside apply it. Then it cannot be reapplied until it is consumed. Also yes to echoing reprimand removing stacks. It feels pretty counterintuitive to play.
Just make garrote apply it, without stealth requirement. It has a little bit of friction, but won’t mess with muscle memory that has been part of sin for forever now. I do think blindside is still a decent idea as a backup if they feel ambush is somehow critical for whatever reason.
5+ CP on darkest night vs max is definitely a good idea period. If the envenom is gonna be buffed that much, casting it with 1CP is not gonna be a good thing. Conversely, if you are about to time out (i do think the duration should be extended just in case), being able to low CP envenom to get it going would be a good thing (if the garrote thing wasn’t an option). If they fix the initial application restrictions, 5+ is completely reasonable.
Long story short, there needs to be a non stealth way to apply the mark, regardless of situation. Whether any builder (i think the dps loss from just moving the mark would be enough of a detriment), just garrote, or blindside procs, something needs to change.
