Me: Im dying in 3 seconds against rogues, its out of hand.
Authority argument: Just turtle, the problem is the opener
Me: Im dying 3 seconds after the turtle expires anyways, i have a video here about gladiators playing as proof of my sentence.
Authority argument: LISTEN TO THE TEACHER AND STOP BEING ARROGANT
2020 logic
For my own personal enjoyment can you send me a clip of you playing hunter
Bonus points for you fighting a rogue rofl
I will record one today.
Please share with the class.
I mean, hunters have been historically better than other classes at dealing with rogues considering their toolkit (flare, pet dealing dmg to prevent reset, pet sac, etc).
Yes, they have tools that are supposely to counter rogues.
They got flare.
(rogues can sap outiside from flare, can cheapshot through flare)
They got freezing trap.
(rogues can cheapshot through freezing trap without being trapped)
They got marks.
(rogue can dispell marks if you got a gcd to mark them)
They got bleeds.
(the best covenant ability for rogues is the same that dispells bleeds)
Two roots.
(Rogues can dispell both of them)
Yes buddy,
Here’s the problem Dilly, and why these arguments are so circular. For many, many, many people they arena at low ratings because it’s fun. They are bad, their opponents are bad but the games can be fun. Most people aren’t playing because they want to push rating as high as they can and get glad. Most people can’t and won’t dedicate that kind of time, film themselves, rewatch the film, analyze their mistakes, duel constantly to improve their skills, make addons and alerts for every single thing etc. etc. They logon maybe a couple nights a week with their partners, get some games in for the week and that’s it.
But now games at that low level are terrible. They are out of the gate unfun, over in 5 seconds. And your answer is “film yourself, rewatch the film, analyze mistakes, duel constantly, make addons to improve awareness etc. and you can overcome”.
Or in simpler terms: PvP sucks at 1600 rating. to which the response is: Then do this to start playing at 2000/2400/whatever rating.
The whole point is if PvP is a dumpster fire for the vast majority of people but at high levels it’s fantastic, that’s still awful for the game. Just saying get better isn’t helpful. Sure you might help the one person who comes to the forums and takes the advice but 99% of people are just going to say well this is absolutely dreadful and not do it.
People aren’t motivated to get better at the game because its horrible and getting better makes it less horrible. People get motivated to improve when it’s really fun and looks even better at high level. And right now if this stands that will NOT be the case.
Actually the argument is worse than that, because gladiators also are dying this fast.
The current argument is something like “even gladiators commits mistakes, so its fine, just don’t commit a mistake”
Ok so to sum all of this up:
Its easier for (insert class/spec here) right now to outplay others if they play perfectly and I don’t, therefore they need to be nerfed.
Its not even two fulls weeks into the Xpac. If sub rogues are doing what destro locks were doing in 8.3 in a month or two, then yeah, lets talk some nerfs. I’m saying that as a rogue. Even at that point, growth-oriented players were still figuring out how to play around it, 4head.
It doesn’t change the fact that OP is not open to getting better and just wants this to get easier.
So making mistakes shouldn’t cause you to lose?
Nice try but no.
More like it’s far easier for (insert class/spec here) to push their offensive CDs and global someone solo than it is for lower rated teams to stop it reliably, which will lead to one shot cheese plaguing the entire lower ladder making nobody want to play into that.
An anecdotal video that’s literally been edited to only show success isn’t proof. Lmao. I could do the same thing and only film times where I successfully peel the rogue and stop his opener. Just leave out the times where I make mistakes and the rogue wins. Wow that must mean rogues can never kill anything and everything is A-okay!
Everyone has been saying rogue is strong consistently throughout this thread.
And people have literally explained to you why that’s not “A rogue doing the same thing to gladiators.” but “gladiators playing like morons and getting punished for it by another gladiator.”
If your statement is:
“I, Aeltis, am dying in 3 seconds from rogues.”
Your poof would be a video, of you, Aeltis, dying in 3 seconds from rogues.
not a video of a rogue killing someone that isn’t you in a different scenario on a different class in a different time frame.
Great, now they don’t have cloak and you can trap them.
Great. You’ve got their covenant heal out of the way.
Once again, if you’re getting vanish and cloak for a root that’s a good trade for you. Vanish and cloak are both 2 minute cds. What’s the CD on your root? Or frost trap?
You keep looking at this match up as if “It’s pointless because the rogue has an answer to the problem I provide.” and not that “I can provide problems that the rouge needs to answer.”
You’re not cut out for pvp dude.
Mistakes should always lead to losses. Bad positioning, not stopping CC chains, inefficient CD trading, inefficient mana usage and going OOM etc.
But that’s not even the same ballpark as coordinating with the entire team instantly to stop a ret pally who only had to push wings and 1 button before he globals someone. Or a sub rogue who is going to solo you in a cheap shot in 3 seconds. That’s not “mistakes leading to a loss”, that’s a massive imbalance in the effort to kill vs the effort to prevent the kill.
Your tl;dr of responses makes me sad. You refuse to learn from anything better players who play your spec are suggesting and instead rather complain and say its too hard.
I posted a video of jelllybeans 1v2ing two sub RM teams so obviously rm is bad /s.
Suposed to work that way, sadly is not applied for rogues. Since they can commit 5 times more mistakes than other classes.
Example, i did a misplay here, will i:
a) sprint away
b) vanish dispelling with kyrian
c) kidney shot and restealth behind a wall
d) even with a missplay burst 100-0% in 3 seconds
e) blind and restealth
f) cloak and vanish
Do you understand what means proportion? rogues CAN commit mistakes without being punished like other classes.
you failing to punish rogues for their misplays is your misplay btw.
A misplay is only a misplay when the opponent capitalizes on it. Not when they’re too busy crying into their hands to look at the screen and realize they have an opportunity in front of them.
Nowhere near the effort required
I mean I also only just list simple solutions people can deal with
I mean they’re random skirmishes before the season has started though and people have gear, people haven’t done any real arenas and it’s still the first week where people are just learning how things happen
Not like people didn’t have plenty of fun in arena even at low levels in xpacs where people got blown up too, even when I was new I thought it was fun/funny.
Besides if you’re not putting in any effort you shouldn’t really expect to succeed very well either. People go into a shooting game even if they’re bad and they can get killed instantly and die over and over and they’ll still have fun, same goes with a fighting game - I don’t really think that’s something that’s truly going to stop people. Even when I was new and I got blown up my mindset was always oh what can I do to stop that, especially when there’s proof of other people being able to handle it better than I can
Again see any other genre of competitive game
League/FPS/Fighting games all the same thing, you’ll die a ton as a noob that’s just part of the experience and part of what makes you learn, if you stop dying for being bad or making mistakes you just have a game that isn’t worth learning because in the end you’ll learn so much more that you’ll never end up dying even before you’ve approached the skill cap (hence why BfA was super boring)
The only thing I could ever say is a good fix is if damage is still high but the damage rotations are complex like MoP so that if I’m a good player I’ll do far more damage than someone that’s inexperienced, slowing it down for them but still having the experience that the pacing progresses as your skill progresses, but MoP was really the only time that was a factor (Cata too but there were other important elements of that xpac and it still wasn’t really as popular as MoP).
A gladiator dies fast because they waste every CD and they say “oh my bad shouldn’t have done that”
They literally only died because they were trolling and trying to cheese gib someone and just got punished for it rofl
Popping every defensive CD offensively against a rogue or any class with high burst should have punish potential, almost every class can do the same sort of thing too.
Almost every class can punish you for doing this, so outside of every other clip being vs just random players, the one where it’s two experienced players they just shoved every CD offensively to gib the weaker player on Pika’s team
Outside of like two classes maybe, there’s no difference in ease of seeing an offensive and pressing a defensive
Just one button
I don’t even have to suggest people just go and do some next level kiting which you could do or things like that to avoid people or just insane positioning
But they press a button you press a button is kinda simple and almost chess like. If there were better resources for people to learn that’s really all that matters imo, but I definitely go very far out of my way to try and provide that given people’s experience
This game has had far harder to deal with gibs though that never really stopped people even casuals from playing, and participation was always high across the board rofl. I can say for a fact that fighting an enh shaman in MoP and just getting to 50% HP from rng crits and knowing you just have to press a defensive even if they don’t pop ascend just because you’d insta lose if they press it is 100x harder than seeing oh I’m stunned, they’re doing damage to me, oh he’s got shadowblades up, time to use something
There’s far more warning for the damage that gibs people right now for a couple of the specs. Arena season hasn’t even started. If people really hate dying to certain things they’ll play defensive oriented comps anyways, those are simple solutions that don’t even really require getting much better (i.e just play with a paladin if being bursted is too hard to react to, now you have sbtl and your healer can just press abilities so you stay alive).
Crying about duels or random 2v2 skirmishes before a season has started is just super illogical though, most matchups are imbalanced as far as player experience goes
You just see who he’s next to and that person uses a defensive
You don’t actually need to do some sick montage highlight to react rofl
Ok you can literally just sprint your pet on them and they’re not resetting. Growl to taunt them to keep them in combat.
Not resetting on you, you have a pet
Flare
Pet, hunters mark
Didn’t press a CD for their 3 minute CD
Flare
Congrats now we see why hunters own rogues
I like where you’re coming from Psy, but I disagree that this is normal because the casual pvpers who do play arena rather than random bgs, I have to imagine don’t normally queue low-gear skirmishes. And rather try to play 2s. When the season’s active. With a healer.
If the tyranny is still rampant and unchecked when healer 2s is in the mix. I’ll concede. (Although Idk what i would be conceding because I’ve gone on at length at how I’d like to see subtlety rogue nerfed./ redesigned)
Oh sure dear rogue.
If i didn’t trinket first cheap shot and died its MY mistake.
but if rogues does a mistake and blind me its MY mistake ASWELL because i couldn’t punish him over his mistake.
I got it. Thanks.
As survival, I misplay here should I
A) disengage away?
B) turtle and exhil/mending heal?
C) mending off dots and feign, camo stealth?
D) trackers net and run?
E) trap and run?
F) intim and run?
G) do nothing and cry op on forums?
Interesting.