Cyclone is kinda busted

Walk away

If the druid comes in, your team needs to hit them and apply slows while you then walk away again

4 Likes

20 yard range (25 if playing range talent). If you are getting spam cloned by rdruid then your team is afk. Seriously, a rdruid going in for a clone without a stun on the target first is prob the easiest thing to stop.

2 Likes

There’s certainly counterplay, it’s a short range and casts whereby if interrupted they are locked out of every single one of their heals. . A shaman can shear, ground. A priest can fade(with talent), chastise, counter fear during the cast - add meld to that if they’re a nelf. Monk’s can para, sweep, easily zoom out of range. Hell, as a holy pal you can even run up to them and rebuke them, or hoj them, or catch them out of form with a rep or blind it instead. And if you kick the resto, he’s likely to start falling behind on hots/heals fast. Not to mention you have 2 other people on the team who can help.

Resto druid has only become more meta recently because of the addition of treants not because of cyclone.

2 Likes

Why are you trying to nerf a Druid’s major utility.

Hit treants or literally anything else

1 Like

OP, I humbly request that you learn what paragraphs are.

You seem to mean a discussion where people agree with you lol.

Look man, you say things like:

Or

:roll_eyes:

(Should see how often supa gets flamed for it in RSS)

Really showcases your inexperience. Which is totally okay, but you need to understand a few things first.

—If an rdruid is pushed up cloning your entire team over and over and you’re not absolutely parsing on him and forcing him away, you’re wrong. This is true not only because clone has the lowest range of all spammable cc in the game, but because rdruids can only life bloom 2 targets at a time. Hitting all 3 or more importantly, hard swapping to the target with no hots (likely him) is detrimental to his mana and comfort. Clone is a risky play for him; especially since he has to usually commit bash to get it off. This is something actual high mmr people understand.

—Using clone at the wrong time to deny dmg and thus a kill can literally lose you games. Fearing the target when you’re trying to kill him does not do anything of the sort. The impact a clone can have (both good and bad) is exponentially higher. This goes along with its short range, high risk usage usually. (This applies less in 2’s by the way).

—For the record, making clone dispellable would absolutely kill specs like boomy. We would die instantly. Massive balance changes would need to be made. You cannot, and I’ll emphasize this, you cannot look at spells in a vacuum and compare them the way trying to. You need to look at the kit of the class/spec it’s on in entirety. You can argue clone is better than poly all day, and frankly -in a vacuum- I’d agree. Clone is the best cc in the game. However you’d also need to understand that mages for instance have three schools of magic, all of which have cc associated with it. They can blink to get the cc, hit more than one person, etc. You can’t just look at the spells individually.

—Yeah you can hoj a dps and the healer could dispel it. You could also hoj the healer and kill him in it. What if you clone the healer. You killing him in that? No, no you’re not. Another point people overlook is that clone cannot be casted for follow up without a gap under most circumstances. You can fear and fear and fear triple on the same person with zero globals in between. You can’t clone someone and hoj them right into the clone for instance. They’ll likely have one press in between.

—While chaos bolt is nice to shut down, if I have to choose between stopping a bolt or a cc on my healer, I’m 100% stopping the cc.

—Sure, you can have rep go on cd if it gets broken or something (which is a misplay by the way). Guess what though, you can also make a teammate completely immune to physical attacks. You can magically stun someone immune to physical attacks. You can aoe blind people. You can hon into a rep with no gap. You can completely immune yourself and still position and heal freely. Stop looking at things 1 to 1. Also, before you retort with being able to dispel those things (even though they’re usually on the healer…) at least all your heals can’t be purged off :man_shrugging:t2:

I just encourage you to think of the game on a whole a little more.

4 Likes

The problem with cyclone isn’t because of resto, the problem is boomy and feral. Both specs spend half the game going for cyclone most of the time. Boomy loses practically nothing going for it constantly and has an easier time because of owlkin. Feral for some reason gets a damage buff for landing it, which makes 0 sense.

Then the other problem is the fact that the only spec in the entire game that can counter cyclone is priest with md. It was balanced initially because it was overall shorter than the other spammable cc’s in exchange for being undispellable. But now that it’s duration is the same as fear and poly it’s just broken by comparison.

There needs to be some change made to the ability or at least the playstyle of the two specs abusing it.
Option 1 is to reduce the duration by 1-2 seconds. Bringing it back to the power level it was in the past, where it was shorter duration for the undispellable nature.
Option 2 is to make it dispellable. If they want the cc to be as strong as other spammable cc’s then it should be dispellable just like them.
Option 3 is to give it a cd. 10 or 15 second cd on the ability. If they want to make no changes to the duration or functionality of the spell this is the only way to balance it.

Something has to change with cyclone, it’s too powerful and turns boomy and feral into cyclone bots.

3 Likes

it takes .1 second of the cast lmfao the reason its fast is because we run 30-37% haste
and also have things that increase our haste by %s like starlord incarn and 15% haste when you leave eclipse

if they made our other spells worth casting maybe we wouldn’t only spam cyclone but 25k starfires and 20-30k wraths isn’t going to do that

Feral is also going to keep spamming clone because they have a pvp talent that makes cyclone give them massive amounts of dmg

with out owlkin

with owlkin proc
i have 38% haste btw
owlkin proc isn’t even for cyclone anymore its for 2 charges so we can get into solar eclipse or bank extra charges

2 Likes

This is tiny thinking

Shorter than which ccs specifically

If we’re just gonna blindly restore all the relative relationships, why shouldn’t hoj get reduced to match modern kidney? Why shouldn’t every cc in the entire game be reduced to let blind sheep and root be longer than anything else?

Maybe you should more specifically admit when you think fear stopped being 8 seconds

They’re “cyclone bots” because they don’t have nearly same depth of toolkit, utility, or defensive capability as any other dps spec. Cyclone IS their utility/defensive capability. If you’re talking about making it dispellable or putting it on a cooldown then you’re effectively killing both specs and a huge class overhaul will need to happen which is far more messy. Cyclone is fine. 1 second off duration would be the extent that I’d be comfortable with. Any of your other presented options would make boomy no longer even viable. And that is straight fact. And the fact that you can’t see that has me questioning your understanding of the game and qualifications for providing meaningful input.

5 Likes

That’s kinda why I said

Currently boomy can cast cyclone 20 times in a 2 minute game while still doing as much damage as every other spec in the game. That isn’t a healthy playstyle for the game especially with how powerful an ability cyclone is.
But as you stated if boomy and feral didn’t have the ability to spam cyclone all game they would be incredibly weak at the moment. They need to nerf cyclone and rebalance both specs in a way where they are still relevant without needing to rely on it so hard.

The best thing to compare cyclone to are stuns. They are very similar in nature. They are both cc’s that cannot be removed apart from niche circumstances. For the most part both cc’s duration has been similar. The longest stuns were 6 seconds and cyclone was 6 seconds. Now with the cc changes cyclone is even longer than every stun in the game. It’s also as long as other spammable cc’s like polymorph. There is 0 downside the the ability. It’s the longest cc in the game while having no counter other than to trinket it. And even that isn’t a counter because high winds is in the game.

I don’t really understand this one? Hoj and kidney have been the same duration for what like 10 years? And they still are?

Blind used to be balanced because it was a single target 2 minute cd, it only became “broken” after rogues got a number of different ways to reduce it’s cd. And roots break on damage and can be dispelled? Same with sheep? Why would the ability that breaks on damage and can be dispelled be the same duration as the one that isn’t?

Also the reason fear was reduced to 6 seconds was because it didn’t break on damage as easily as every other cc in the game. Locks were able to fear someone and get full dots up on them before it broke.

The only one you could even argue about this is boomy, boomy for the past 2 expansions entire purpose has been spam cyclone, rot with dots, and burst with instant damage. That needs to change, boomy has been one of the least fun specs to play against in the past 2 expansions because of how easy it is to land cyclones and how strong it is to land it.
Feral is completely fine without cyclone and half the time last season didn’t even play cyclone. The only reason it’s so rampant now is because of wild attunement which should never have been made in the first place.

Clone is fine I think the issue with Rdruid is the ease of being able to be offensive at the moment with treants healing. This allows them to get in there and get stuns/clones off way more safely without having to worry about globals on heals. I wouldn’t say it’s a clone issue but more of treants being way too strong at the moment.
Druid is one of those healers that when they get to use their full kit are god like status. Just look at 2’s… treants allow Druids to do too much imo.

Rep is worse.

I had a lobby that was 2100 let the hpal cast rep 8 times in one out 6 matches today.

Dr rep ftw

Then why does it need to change? Because it’s annoying for you to fight against? That’s not a good enough reason. It’s clearly not making either boomy or feral overpowered(Feral PVP talent aside - but that’s a problem with the talent not the spell). I enjoy the playstyle.

Also, Feral is not fine without cyclone now - you’re basically a crappier rogue - a crappier assassination rogue, and we can see how well they’re performing in this meta.

The reason people didn’t even play clone last season is because 1)it had an even worse talent point investment(which still is bad btw), and 2) the AOE damage spec was completely overtuned in a meta where pet specs (UH DK, and Demo lock) were running rampant - which allowed it to utilize big bleeds and bite procs. That’s since been re-balanced, and the single target damage is lacking without the PVP talent. And I bet if you ask any high rated feral they would much sooner tell you that they would prefer better heals/survivability in place of the Wild Attunement abuse playstyle.

1 Like

You know boomy completely dominated the entirety of the awc and won the NA Finals right? Even after all the nerfs boomy got? Anyone arguing that boomy isn’t insane is wild.
As for playstyle do you not see the problem where a boomy can easily land 20 clones in a 2 minute game while getting interrupted on 10 of them and still doing as much/ more damage than every other spec in the game?

There are more ferals than rogues over 2800 in 3’s right now. Feral is doing just fine. Only bad ferals are struggling.

Wait so your saying spam cloning all game isn’t a fun playstyle? I wonder who here has been saying that this entire time?

i see so many people talking about cyclone and immediately going into rdruid for no reason

i agree with this

dislike it but not gonna put out a thought on frezny clone in this post

my only real complaint with cyclone atm is boomkin
there’s almost 0 drawback, damage loss, or (most of the time) risk playing super pushed in just going through every stop (either the right way OR the wrong way tbh) and just oppressing with cyclone

1 Like

this isn’t even tiny thinking it’s just lunacy
the reason you give for it is just pathetically surface-level

there are several important downsides to it, you’ve just chosen to never notice them for years and you’re choosing not to read them in this thread

the odds are actually 0 that you’ve played ret forever and never:
killed a druid in 3 seconds because they went for clone at a bad time
lived a go for free because you were greeding bubble and then got cloned low
but you’ve never connected the dots. what does that say about you

oh you’re right my b

this is just more tiny thinking. you are a letdown

not even a little bit what you were asked

mental midgetry

I guess this is the only thing I can respond the because everything else you typed is just you being an idiot.

How exactly does boomy getting cloned open them up to getting killed? They can still use a number of their defensive tools like bear, bash if they have it, I think even frenzied.

this one makes 0 sense to me. What? So cyclone is bad, because the druid decided to clone a target who was low when they could have just killed? Wild.
Even though they could use said cyclone to then extend cc onto someone else on the team and choose when to hit the low target? You cyclone dps low, then cyclone healer since there’s 1 less stop to deal with and the dps is stuck there low with healer in cc.

I guess cyclones a bad ability in your hands, and yours alone. So maybe spend less time being a dingus on forums and learn how to play the game. Not really a point in interacting with a person who’s only response is to insult others while avoiding anything that would cause their point to be taken negatively.

what a deep and resounding irony

a more just world would have a government agency responsible for clockwork orangeing you into understanding how dense you are and helping you experience the shame you deserve to feel in response

yikers lol!