Correct Hunters were the last class brought into the game. Survival was originally going to be called Woodsmen and be a melee spec. The last talent was Lacerate, but it did such abysmal damage Blizzard overhaul the spec in 1.7 removed most of the melee stuff and replaced it with Wyvern Sting. Essential Survival was a melee focused spec for only about seven months before changing into a range spec with talents that strengthen melee capabilities.
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Right. We each play the game in our own ways. Hunters were a ranged class, you picked it and played it as melee sometimes; to me thatâs weird, but whatever.
But it doesnât just end at some innocent alternative playstyle. The Hunter class matured into the ranged weapon expert (which, by the way, was the entire focus and intent right from the beginning), Survival became its own unique spec and playstyle, people like me went to play it and enjoy it for many years, only for Legion to come along and essentially evict us from the spec. Then people like you come along and say because you had those melee episodes in Vanilla we should all step aside and be happy for you, with anything else being selfish/cruel. No, it doesnât work that way.
You going around meleeing easy quest mobs in Vanilla doesnât affect my playstyle. Taking away my preferred spec does. Why donât you just run up to the mob and shoot at them from 1 yard away if you like that sort of thing so much? Why must you restrict other players to melee-only to complete your enjoyment? Thatâs the true selfishness here.
Iâm not being elitist. Iâm saying that specs should not abruptly and arbitrarily change core designs late into a gameâs lifespan; ESPECIALLY when itâs to change a niche audience. Itâs the same reason Iâm against Hunter/Shaman tanks. Approximately 100% of people pushing for these sorts of things are ignoring what gets taken away and who gets screwed over to make it happen. And that includes you. You very evidently donât care that a lot of people lost their favourite spec just so your niche âjust-for-funâ melee moments from Vanilla could become an actual spec. If this was all put in some 4th spec there would be 0 problem. But no, we lost 1/3 of our class for this.
I never said it did. Especially because I really didnât push content back then. The point is countering people who claim that melee was a valid and viable playstyle back then.
Solo, casual content is just not relevant in that argument. ANY playstyle works there. You can go around shooting mobs to death as a Warrior/Rouge, or wanding them to death as a Mage/Warlocks. In that last example, those classes actually had talents buffing Wand damage. The question is a) whether there was a true MELEE SPEC for Hunters back then, and b) whether it is worth making one in 2016 onwards at the expense of an existing ranged spec (hint: NO is the answer to both questions).
Yes, actually, I do tell you that thatâs an unworthy reason for having this spec. Again, because it cost other people their spec. You cannot keep ignoring that point. I call you selfish because you believe your preferred playstyle is inherently worth more than others. Survival always represented the better utility aspects of Hunters i.e. the kiting and control. Those are big reasons people came to the class, especially to play that spec in particular. Being melee-only throws a wrench in that and screws those people over.
Also, Iâve âhad ranged SV all of WoWâ? How do you think specs are meant to work? Do you think they are meant to regularly switch between competing designs to give everyone a go? Yeah, no. You have different specs for different playstyle preferences. If you want to fight beside your pet so much, play Unholy. Or play BM and just stick to melee range. If thatâs not enouhg for you and you need a Hunter pet AND a melee-only Hunter, consider not forcing your overly specific and pedantic tastes on others.
Iâm sure people did. And that means nothing to me if you canât prove it was any significant amount of people. You can name any niche spec idea and find a non-zero number of people supporting it. Iâve seen and argued with people non-ironically demanding a Hunter healing spec. The fact that they have to effectively bribe people with superior DPS (and still ultimately get underwhelming results) to get them to play a melee Hunter spec now tells me that use of the word âmanyâ in your post probably isnât accurate.
Oh my. The language isnât clear but I sure hope he isnât claiming that SV was garbage before 7.0 given how provably untrue that is.
Aaaand looking at the rest of this unfiltered braindump of a post that appears to be the case. This will be an easy one.
Uhh, yeah, given that I and a lot of other people did just that.
Oh look, itâs this garbage claim again.
No, actually. SV had itâs own distinct identity and we were fine with it. Why canât you people go crying to the mages about Arcane being an awkward in-between of Fire and Frost, or Warlocks with Affliction being an in-between of Demonology and Destruction? Itâs kind of selfish of me to push that onto those classes; I donât mean them any harm. But melee revisionism has done enough damage to this class already. Give it a rest.
I donât know why you mention Aspect of the Viper since that wasnât a Survival-only thing. Black Arrow and Explosive Shot were actually awesome. Especially Explosive Shot. That one was the most aesthetically strong ability the class had. You better believe you had people flocking to the spec when they first added it. The 8.0 fakery has nothing on 3.0.
Why donât you actually go look up the statistics before making such nonsense claims? Ranged Survival was an extremely popular spec for most of its existence, even spending many months as the most played spec in the game. It wasnât a âconfusing messâ untill the melee brigade came along and declared it so, probably to deflect from how melee Survival is the real confusing mess (throwing bombs at yourself while stealing BMâs identity, LOL).
Yeah yeah, we heard this the first 3 times or so you said it in the same post. SV was fine; youâre just making crap up as you go along in an attempt to deflect blame from melee Survival. Doesnât work. Ranged SV was infinitely superior to melee SV.
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Just stop dude. People donât read your walls of text. Youâve lost the argument⊠again
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If I was an a$$hole who didnât want to put work into my points, this would be my excuse too.
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Hunter class lost all of its enjoyment after WoD. GG while it lasted.
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obv you have not seen this routine with him. He forces people down his line of argument then hits them with walls of text going over the same points already brought up. And heard yet rejected.
then when we bring up very simple points to why after 2 years he needs to just give it up and that even if he got what he wanted he would then be doing exactly what he had happen to him to us. He basically just starts over. With more walls of text.
He doesnât understand that We would lose our spec.
they wanted a hunter spec to be this from jump. Finally after 15 years they figured it out. They are not going back.
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I dont have to prove anything to you. Enough people wanted a melee hunter that we now have one. I dont care if you like it or not. I donât care if you want old Survival back or not.
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Iâve been lurking for a long time on this thread and I am 100% agreement with Bepples.
I think the most fun I have ever had with this game was Survival 3.0. God WotLK was a dream for hunters hands down my favorite expac.
I see where you are coming from Cambodius I too experimented in BC with stacking stamina gear and dodge. Building a 41/20 survival/bm build and going out world PvPing but I would have never traded one of my ranged specs for it.
Also I donât know how many people actually played vanilla, but you the only time you were meleeing was when a warrior charged you or a rogue/feral opened on you. Most likely you would have a ice trap down or an explosive trap down. Or you fd and trapped them. If you didnât do this the only option was to spam wing clip. You hardly ever raptor striked for dmg. You would spam wing clip and hope for an imp wingclip proc then run away and range them down again.
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Iâm sorry but a spec called âSurvivalâ where your #1 goal is to âharpoonâ yourself into a pile of enemies is outrageously stupid class design that most people are just turned off by. I donât care how âeffectiveâ Blizzard makes the spec in terms of raw damage output, itâs a stupid idea that still feels out of place.
What SV should have always been, as Iâve seen argued by thousands of people over the years, is a mid-short range dual wield ranged spec with a focus on âclose combatâ only when opening from stealth (camouflage) and as a finisher (think kill shot, but with both weapons, and requires melee range). Something more in line with a ranged Rogue, something more tactical but still rangedâŠ
I mean⊠call me crazy, however unbalanced something like that may seem, itâs easily more interesting than this steaming pile of hot mess that SV is right now, which is essentially a gimp Warrior hopping around lobbing traps at people.
SV could, and should be so much cooler than it is right now⊠I feel like whatever vision they had for SV as a 2h pike wielding whatever itâs supposed to be⊠is just way off the mark. It doesnât scream Hunter to me, and it continues to feel out of place.
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So, Outlaw?
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Exactly Outlaw.
Iâve been involved off and on with the blizz hunter forums for a very long time. I donât recall ever seeing such a desire.
Not that Iâm saying it doesnât sound mildly interesting. Iâm a fan of a ranged/melee hybrid. Regardless of arguments to the contrary, I used our melee abilities to great effect in PvP back in the day. But there is no doubt that was hit and run only. The entire class has (until recently) been a ranged class. On top of that ranged core, for the first 8 years we had some useful (situational) melee abilities.
The current survival is in a sense the opposite of that. Its melee with some useful ranged abilities. Itâs too much melee and not enough ranged for the hybrid spec I would play though (and has no bow, grr).
Since they got rid of us having both weapons, itâs just really not possible to make the type of class I would like to see. Regardless, at no point should they have nuked what has been the most popular spec in the game on several occasions (SV) to make the version we have now. Even if some like it or even love it, even if itâs top DPS and best in PvP, it still sucks that we no longer have a good ranged kiting class in hunter (something both SV and MM were great at).
They have made so many mistakes with hunter since Legion its silly stupid. The current state of hunters sucks. It will continue to suck unless and until they unprune (and make baseline again) a ton of stuff.
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You donât remember Gwyeric? Itâs been bandied about at least once a melee thread since Iâve been on the forums (late 2006).
I recall seeing threads on melee abilities, though not specifically a âdual-wielding short-mid range specâ. Itâs possible I was absent during those posts or I ignored them as uninteresting. The name Gwyeric sounds vaguely familiar, but I am terrible with names so I have no context for that vague memory.
All he used was two 1h axes.
I have no issues with suv being melee. Byt id like a ranged munitions spec like old suv in the game. Idk i think class design needs to be more in dept especially since most classes have pruned
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Seems silly that there wouldnât be a spec that specializes in guns since BM snd Outlaw both use them. I always thought it would be a fun class design, and there are several cool themes and ideas you could play with.
must be a meme at this point to hate on Survival Ironic when its the best dps spec of the 3 and the most fun. Im glade its not a watered down mm range spec like it was til legion. Hunter needed a melee spec as it had originally in classic and BC I Love Survival its the only hunter spec I dont feel is elevator music at the old folks home. Most who seem to complain about it dont even dare try it out fully to appreciate it.
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Again I donât think people actually played in vanilla. Or I must remember it like 100% differently.
Survival was a tree that was only used for supporting the rest of the builds like mm or bm. Before the 2ap = 1agi change (If you even know what that means) you would play a 21mm/30 survival (for lightning reflexes and surefooted). And of the survival tree the only melee talents you would take was imp wing clip.
I donât know why people keep bringing up well back in vanilla this or that bla bla bla. Like did playing vanilla makes you some part of WoW hierarchy? At least if you are going to make claims about playing vanilla know your stuff before coming on here and saying dumb stuff that is wildly inaccurate.
Btw I donât know if you remember the first entire rehaul of survival the first time? That was 3.0. Because no one played survival in BC.
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Nobody played it because BM was OP and more importantly, EW did not stack so the raid only needed one SV Hunter. Nobody actually played MM in BC.
BTW I was one of the SV Hunters that you say didnât exist.
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