Look at how they are handling the Azerite situation. They know its terribad. They know they have lost a lot of subs over it (way more than the SV fiasco to be sure). They are actively working on fixing the situation. But rather than just create regular gear and fix the classes, they are doubling down on their mistake. They will let this horrible system exist as it is until 8.2 at which point it will likely be a fair amount better. But that’s an entire year of bad gameplay and lost subs. They don’t “revert”, they only “iterate”. That is how it has always been.
we would blow them out of the water honestly. I keep on par or just below higher ilvl DH in the few mythics ive done as MM. these are DH that I know and are higher ilvl then me. on a mob pull with 10 plus we become a major oulier. we contend when it only spreads to 5. could it be 7? yes. anything above that and the damage starts to go a lil nuts.
No honestly I think you are delusional to think that people just up and left the game instead of just simply playing another character. you are bringing up factual data yes. but you then use emotion to make wild assumptions based on that data. there is no real way for either one of us to tell why people left the game. you take the data from the expac and correlated a large % of the lost subs to hunter changes.
you are taking spec representation loss and automatically concluding lost subs. I for one left for legion but my decision in no way had anything to do with the SV change. at the time SV was my most played spec so by every metric (you are using) I fall into your category of left because of the change.
conjecture. I cant take this as fact cuz I have no way of quantifying data. not to mention even if true I have no way of tallying whether your situation was an outlier to normal data or status quo.
blizz reverts changes all the time. you are out of touch here if you think that a company that was losing subs in the way you thought would have just sat there and let a developer guide there bottom line. not gonna happen. at the very least they would have added the range spec back.
its been years at this point. so either what you said happened and they rebounded back the lost subs ( so no issue). or what you said didn’t happen and there was no trouble besides an overly complicated melee spec at inception. which caused low population and the addition of a hero melee class pushing melee players to try that class first before SV making for even less representation.
except he has a boss. and when you fail as bad as you say they did then that developer would no longer be there in that capacity. this is how the world works. you fall flat on your face (your words) with a new design idea, you are replaced. that simple. everything you say points to a mass exodus and major loss revenues due to a change in a very low population area of the game
once again taken your experience and saying it auto correlates to the rest of the world. business don’t run the way you are saying besides a select few. big business is pass / fail with stuff like this.
wow and you were a developer? you do realize all the code written on this expac having to do with azerite right? they would have to scrap the expac to scrap azerite in any way. changing all the traits to the neck is their way of streamlining the process to make it similar to artifact while maintaining the integrity of the expac. im sorry man you have a hard time differentiating your own emotion when critically thinking. you got to take yourself out of the situation so your emotions don’t play a roll.
You haven’t even cleared normal content. You are just not in a position to know what you’re talking about. You haven’t seen rets, shamans, warlocks, rogues who do 100k aoe damage while MM is pulling 40k.
You SAY I am using emotion instead of logic, but that doesn’t make it true. Since you can’t discredit my calculations directly, you instead try to discredit my ability to think critically. And you do so by simply making the statement that I am incapable because of “emotion”. Frankly, I don’t feel emotional about anything having to do with SV. I don’t really give a crap. I am simply trying to elaborate on the conclusions I have made based on years of paying attention.
Lead developer (Ion). He was the person who made these decisions.
Creating a 4th spec is taboo at Blizzard. It means they have one more class to balance which seems to be their most hated thing to do.
I promise you, the person who made the decision to make SV melee was the person in charge.
That depends a great deal on how high up the food chain the decision is made.
It would not take “more code” to create regular gear. It would take some work to make classes more self contained however. But this is something they have to do anyways, and have 12 years of experience to pull from with a ton of outside pressure (the player base) to do exactly that.
But you do have a point, and your point is my point. As an innovator you stick with your current direction, even if it’s proven to be bad.
In addition to being an ad hominem attack, this has no basis in reality. I don’t have a dog in this race. I am simply reporting things as they are. You have this “faith” in these people that is unwarranted. I have tried to give examples of why that faith has no basis, but you want to discredit me because then your faith would prove to be misplaced. That’s a very common human reaction to tested faith.
lol this be my hunter who I just brought back because I unlike some of you know how to still progress when my raid comp doesn’t want my main. literally have raided on this guy 2 nights and we started heroic. My dh was clearing into heroic and im sorry but your op profile doesn’t give you more intelligence then me. or more skill. all that your added clears on higher content gives you is an ego. I ptr test the classes I progress with so im guessing I know far more then you on the subject. esp since you cant seem to figure out how OP trick shots would be on targets higher then 7. get outta here with your ego its useless in this convo
more emotion from you. but please keep saying you aren’t emotional about this. do I need to start showing your past posts to prove you most definitely are emotional about this?
I can’t argue with anything you’re saying my dude, I completely understand the playstyle preferences and such, I guess from my perspective it’s difficult to see the other side of things, mainly in the sense that while I understand how upsetting/infuriating it can be for one of the most popular (according to you, I suppose, but my assumptions aren’t better) specs to get a complete overhaul as it did. I don’t mean to say “try it, you’ll like it”, just more of a “try it and see maybe it isn’t terrible in function, but you don’t have to like it” sense. Granted, that ultimately doesn’t change the fact that it’s not your choice of playstyle and it’s still melee. For me, though, it’s the first class out there to have both a ranged and a melee spec, it keeps me enjoying hunter as I am able to swap between MM to feel like a caster (albeit, a shtty one with the current state), and competitive with melee. There is feral and boomkin, but that’s more of a hassle than its worth when having to deal with keeping relic’s up to date on both specs and not sacrifice to the opposite, from last expansion, to either paying a large cost to swap traits, or try and find another 3 pieces of azerite armor for each slot to keep for spec swapping, not including trinkets and weapons. Same with shamans. That being said, if I truly wanted to play a class with both playstyles, I had at least those two options prior and shouldn’t btch about the inconvenience of multiple sets, seeing as that’s a very OG vanilla way with gear swapping just for different encounters on the same spec.
I don’t see where you get that this post was emotional at all. Attacking the person rather than addressing their position is an ad hominem attack. It is only slightly above name calling in the hierarchy of disagreement. That is just a fact and devoid of any emotion. It is also true that when ones faith is challenged by facts and evidence, it is a common human reaction to resort to fallacies in logic as a means to give credence to their faith. One could be forgiven for becoming emotional when the tactic of debate is an ad hominem attack, but I saw no evidence of emotion in the post.
Ultimately you are all arguing without complete information and drawing your own conclusions to tell the story you wish; raw data is great like that
IMO if you really want to take a good guess ( and this would still be just that, a guess) you would have to do the following;
Find the total number of players across all classes that left during SVs introduction in order to find your baseline (just picking numbers here but lets imagine 15%)
Next find the percentage of hunters that left during the same time. For this example let’s imagine 17%. Now you could say 2% more hunters may have left for reason that may be class specific.
Divide the number based upon SV representation of the hunter class and you may get a number that could ‘possibly’ reflect the number of players leaving because of the SV changes.
However you must remember this is purely based if the demographics of the player and you would never actually know unless you asked each player directly.
I don’t really care so I’m not gonna run those numbers but 250k seems absurd but ultimately melee is SV is here to stay so suck it up and get over it and return to talking about the present/future and stop looking at the past.
One of the core (false) arguments for melee SV is that SV used to be melee, so they were literally looking to the past when making melee SV.
Also, it’s pretty silly to pretend this spec is set in stone when it just came out of another major overhaul; one that brought back Serpent Sting (again, looking to the past) and allowed for more ranged damage, mind you.
We are 4 years ahead of the last time SV was a popular spec, so looking to the past is a completely valid and wise way of sorting this spec out in the future.
Bringing back a spell is quite different to a play style.
I have played my hunter on and off since BC but never really mained it until current bfa and for a moment in legion. I have generally kept it at level cap though. While I do sit in the “hunters should be ranged” camp I can appreciate the choice and do some what enjoy the sv rotation.
In the past when returning to my hunter the sv and mm talent trees and play styles were always close and sometimes spells were even switched across the specs. Therefore imo rather than campaigning for a sv revert it makes more sense to campaign to give black arrow and the like to mm through talents. This would give those who enjoyed the old sv an alternate build that might do slightly less dps but give you a feel of “the good ol’ days” with the odd patch that might make it the preferred build.
An off the top of my head idea while writing this that could be cool to explore would be a talent that replaces aim shot with black arrow. Doing the same damage but as a dot, it wouldn’t be so good in pve but may help mm in arena so it isn’t so reliant on getting aim shots off
This isn’t really what is going on. I used the information I have now, and information that I remembered, and with assumptions made some calcuations and came to some conclusions. That almost fits your description except I explicitly laid out what my assumptions are, what information was based on current data, and what information was based on memory. So if you wish to dispute my calculations you should either give reasons why my assumptions were flawed, or show why my memory is faulty.
Please don’t suggest I am “misusing” raw data without proof though. Making that statement without anything specific to back it up doesn’t help move the conversation forward and is likely untrue (though I am happy to be proven wrong). As for “telling the story I wish”… I don’t want to tell any story except reality. If you feel I have made a misstep in that endeavor, be specific, not accusatory without substantiation.
I"m guessing you didn’t read how I came to the conclusions I did.
250k does seem absurd. Not a single person said such a number except you though, so I’m not sure why you are bringing it up.
This is called being part of the same class. It was this way for almost all classes up until Legion. It was certainly this way for all classes where all specs were of the same type (3 DPS specs e.g.).
To my understanding the main parts of the SV rotation that were loved (correct me if I’m wrong, I rarely played SV) were Black Arrow, spread pressure with Serpent Sting, LnL procs from Black Arrow (and traps) and most importantly, Explosive Shot, both as a base shot and from LnL procs. Black Arrow by itself just won’t do any justice to ranged SV playstyle.
One of the biggest problems with Aimed Shot is the amount of damage tied up in both talents that modify it (Careful Aim, etc.) and Precise Shots. A direct replacement, in addition to not doing anything to really bring back old SV playstyle would not work with the current talents and core damage abilities of MM.
MM wouldn’t of worked because there is a specific set of people who want to play an archer. not to mention the archer type class / spec is a staple to medieval fantasy and needs to be there. BM couldn’t be done because it is the staple hunter spec that has been THE most popular spec throughout all of WOW. SV was a progression spec. It only made sense to change that. they should have made a 4th spec or pushed this change into Rogue (while also introducing single hand range weaps). this way both hunters and rogues would be on the range loot table and both would be able to duel wield
SV could be fully ranged with simple talent changes.
Replace Chakrams or Flanking strike with a modifier that makes Raptor Strike/MB/carve ranged. Basically full time aspect of the Eagle that also changes auto attack damage to ranged.
The carve bit is a little tricky, but otherwise it would be quite simple.
![:stuck_out_tongue:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/stuck_out_tongue.png?v=6" ":stuck_out_tongue:")