Yes, I agree with your sentiments on this Jessail. Personally, I think blockade is still a tad overtuned for normal mode, or the bosses prior are a tad undertuned. Fitting that they named it “blockade.”
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I think that’s a topic worthy of another thread all together, but I agree. That said I don’t think we should undervalue that switch from season 1 to season 2 gear. That extra ring was worth at least 15iLvL on its own.
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I didn’t say I was doing all of that. Just pointing out what’s available as easy content typically intended for casuals that rewards gear higher than it should and in turn, moves those casuals out of the content they want to be doing way too soon.
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It’s called selective reading.
Yup that’s a good point, though remember that the new WQ and WF gear also got their azerite pieces upgraded. So they were still relevant when it came to gearing for this tier.
They did, but again the staging of the gear to the content seems off. What the exact distribution should be I’m not sure, and seems to be the point of conflict or contention throughout this thread. I’ll be very curious to see what the change to the next tier in 8.2 brings because my understanding is that crucible of storms won’t really change much as far as this goes. So we’ll see if this is just a speed bump created by the season 1/season 2 issue or a longer term iLvL progression and staging issue.
Show me where she said this …
My postulate is typically things should be linear and relative to difficulty. Similar to how it’s been for the vast majority of the lifetime of WoW. If solo oriented players want more progression, then ask for that. But do it so that it is content based, and reward based that is aimed to progress solo oriented play. The problem is that right now we are rewarding solo oriented players with group based rewards.
It’s not shocking that the group based players might get a bit miffed that the content they enjoy is getting surplanted by content that is not aimed at them.
A great example of this was SoO LFR trinkets. The SoO trinkets (particularly the caster one) was so powerful, that it was literally the best trinket in the game regardless of ilvl. The only way to upgrade from it was to get a better version of itself. Hence, every single progression oriented player was running every possible difficulty every week (including LFR) trying to get this trinket. That’s another great example of a content reward being wildly out of place with the content rewarding it.
You should never go from Mythic raid A -> LFR raid B for character progression. That just seems silly. Similarly… You should never go from Heroic raid A (370) -> WF/WQ rewards B (385/400). That also… seems silly to me.
Edit: If you want an example of a solo oriented reward: Give pieces that are understat’d, but have affixes that augment their power making them strong for solo oriented play in the world or in WF’s/Islands. Add affixes that proc heals or shields, or even give damage procs/stat procs… Or have them let you jump distances, or give you additional abilities, or you name it! Have affixes that are gliders on capes, or give us a hand piece that has a grappling hook in place.
The simple catch is… have the affixes disable in instanced content (aside from WF/Islands). Boom. Solo oriented character progression rewarding high ilvl gear that makes you stronger in the world, but doesn’t surplant group based progression.
Then… 2 months into the tier, introduce the usual catch up mechanics we’ve grown used to.
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wrong in pvp gear makes a difference
I’m with you on a lot of this; I get it, but this above statement is where your argument collapses. You and I are not in competition. We will never, ever be in competition. Yes, it is an MMO, which is why I say you can’t design for one audience for sure. But we will not be doing the same content. Therefore you’re only competing with other M+ Hardcores. The gear that anyone else is “handed” doesn’t change what you did, get, or how you rate among your peers.
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Assuming this is not a troll thread created by someone describing the most casual friendly expansion yet, that rewards multiple sources of catchup normal-heroic quality raid gear with essentially zero challenge/effort…
this is an MMO and content that is BOTH challenging and rewarding will and should primarily be premade/organized (NO matchmaking) content
if you cannot devote at least a 45-60 minute session at a time to something like middle-higher M+ keys then you must realize that WoW PvE endgame (I don’t pvp so I won’t discuss it) cannot fulfill your need for content that is both challenging and rewarding
I gave up raiding entirely in late WOD / early legion in favor of M+ because I was sick of devoting 3+ hour continuous blocks of daily time for any meaningful progression. When I made this decision I did NOT go to any forums and demand that the raid structure be destroyed and dumbed down and brought down to a level to accommodate my demands. I accepted that unless I sacrificed that time such raiding content was off limits to me.
If hypothetically I was further restricted in the future such that 60 min WoW sessions were impossible with my schedule, and thus making M+ key pushing impossible, then i would make similar decision. I would NOT demand that the M+ dungeon system be destroyed in time required and/or player skill required
And to the person above saying ‘we are not in competition’, you are absolutely wrong. From the earliest days of multiplayer RPGs (eg. diablo 1) people wanted to compare themselves to others, which in RPGs primarily comes from an assortment of powerful items. If there is no consistent correlation with powerful items and content difficulty anymore then players who want to push themselves and progress their character will simply stop caring.
Luckily some executives at blizzard (like J. Allen Brack) still understand this and gave the green light for WoW classic development. It will be a much bigger success than most WoW retail players are willing to admit, and a big reason for that is a far more consistent correlation between powerful rewards and challenging content.
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Alright yeah, let’s argue with the multi-gladiator/hero of the alliance player about PvP lol. It does matter but unless you’re under 370, it’s not as important as it would be in PvE.
In PvP there is scaling, therefore the ilevel difference is barely noticeable if you’re above 370. I play my alts just fine and they all range from 375-380 ones even 368.
370 should be gear you get from effortless content such as casual bgs, wqs, lfr, warfronts, world pvp and m0.
Less difficulty, lesser gear.
More difficulty, higher gear.
So this is where I diverge from you, in theory this game being an MMORPG rewards should only come from group play. In classic this was generally true (apples to oranges now as they are two completely different games). I don’t think players that are not in guilds or PUG should be overly penalized as some have recommended by the removal of LFR and gear from warfronts. I’m going to ignore other issues around those specific items for now because they have their own rather smelly baggage. I think it’s fine to have alternate gearing options; in my opinion this actually supports the PvP and raid communities by allowing alts and new players to get “geared enough” to show their faces in a Normal PUG or rated BGs.
To me this is an issue with the systems as implemented, as mentioned above I’m not going to go into that. Blizz has indicated some form of a fix is coming to some of that content (heroic warfronts).
Depends on how steep the curve is ![:wink:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/wink.png?v=6" ":wink:")
. That said I don’t wholly disagree, I think it’s complicated this time.
I wouldn’t say gear dropped reliably, more like once you had it you had it. Every piece of gear had exactly 1 version, so you didn’t need to keep farming it until you got a max ilvl titanforge to get the best version of it.
No, Leiloni (Original poster) wasn’t the person Bornakk was asking the question to (Nordrik). In fact, Bornakk literally pointed out that Nordrik’s opinion went against Leiloni’s original post. You really gotta read the reply chain before you call people out for contradicting themselves.
I can’t believe this thread is still alive. Kind of goes to show how dead these forums are.
OP was making an absurd point, just move on, please.
bro, half your gear is warforged from low m+ anyways, what else do you want? you wanna be mythic raider geared? youre also on area 52, it shouldnt take long to find a group for m+.
How is this forum dead but this thread is alive? Like what?
So, a bomb goes off killing 99.9% of the worlds population, but your town is still full of people… does that change that 99.9% of the population is now gone?
As the forum dies people will will congregate where ever they can, like people huddling together under an umbrella in a rainstorm.
I don’t agree that Blizzard should embrace people feeling “done” with wow. I don’t play any other games. When I feel like there is nothing else to do, I start to blame Blizzard for releasing content too quickly. Last expansion, I felt like Blizzard was releasing new raids before most people could down the heroic bosses, let alone start mythic attempts. Then the last raid came out so quickly, that by the time people were done with it, there was like 6 months of nothing to do.
I prefer that Blizzard cater to those who want more to do, rather than to those who want to quickly burn through content and go play something else.
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