True; no argument. But for the power it dishes out for us, I’ll take that occasional “shove”. 
Part of me wishes that judgment would turn into HoW at execute range and wings just to avoid all these gcd issues with our builders.
Thematically would make sense, both essential being the same spell with us chucking hammers like a hammer bro
Give us 6 hp to bank and roll over how’s hp to judgement
“Feels relatively decent”
Talk about nothingburger of a comment. Literal slop. Just stop posting.
Played with “new ret” yesterday and it felt whatever. Happy to use TS again although its damage is too high.
It needs to do something more. Something akin enh shaman: crash lighting, makes stormstrike cleave, gives full maelstorm weapon stacks, instant chain lighting that reduces crash lighting cd, rinse and repeat.
I thought it would work as a mean to reduce wakes cd per target hit but thats just not possible now. Maybe make ts dot actual censure and move holy flames damage buff to burning target to the ts censure. Damage alone wont carry the spell u less its cd and gcd benefits heavily from haste.
I tried Templar Strike and it was a disaster. All my spells sat off CD while I used it. I still do big dmg using Crusading Strikes.
If TS is really that strong, and the rest of the damage isnt nerfed, Im pretty fine with it. Its a situational button at best in pvp, how often will I have time to not be feared, stunned, cycloned, knocked off a cliff, or snared to stand near someone to press it in PVP? 30 seconds out of a 15min match maybe? So if I can remember to press it in melee range I do more damage, but if the pvp community finds out it hits hard there is just another reason to blanket Rets with CC spams so we dont hit anyone. Already a CC sponge during wings, might as well be a CC sponge the rest of the game.
zealot was 40% in beta but yersterday when pre patch launched it was 20%
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There is allot of things odd with the warbands patch, blessed champion is 2 point talent still for example. vangaurd is still there too instead of emperean legacy also.
consecrated blade is also still a talent.
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What do you mean consecrated blade is still there? Did they remove it?
in TWW it was supposed to be baseline with BoJ and the divine hammers is redesigned.
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Oh thank God. For a second I thought I’d have to use consecrate as part of my rotation again
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The talent patch they used is an older one. None of the classes I play got the most up to date talent set up. Thet may have been why the maintenance was delayed so long- its possible something broke and they had to roll it back to an older build to give themselves a chance to fix the new one.
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Just stop replying please.
Talk about nothingburger of a comment.
Oh man, what would i ever do without people such as yourself replying to me, with such high quality, thought provoking arguments.
Yea, ret pally is nothing special, it feels pretty good, but it’s not a top tier spec for gameplay.
Yeah but the question is gonna be are we keeping this ret tree that’s on live right now or they gonna give us the so-called updated ret tree we were supposed to get when TWW hits a month from now…
I mean, they made some comprehensive changes to the tree on the beta/PTR.
It’s not their MO to back pedal to this extend.
So its really just a question of when.
But having finally been able to play with some of this stuff, some things don’t seem to work properly and I’ve yet to see them address those in patch notes since those talents became a thing and were a month away from release.
JJE proc don’t light up FV and share the same visual as our DF tier proc.
The latter is just a timing issue but it should light up FV when it procs.
Divine Hammer is literally impossible to maintain more than 10-12 sec because the increase in damage rate has no limit, so you always end up in a situation where it spends it faster than you can generate.
And for the damage it’s doing, it seems rather pointless for how unnatural it feels to not use the other spenders at all.
TS, while way more powerful than it used to, is still in this weird “no interaction” zone with haste.
Edit:
Just saw their post
So this is telling both in what they are saying and what they aren’t.
They know it’s not their most updated trees and saying all of this is intended.
They are working and that’s the bar they are comfortable with at the moment…
And basically, knowing the many issues people across classes have brought up, this means they simply don’t have the time to fix them unless its game breaking.
They are on a timeline and no one in there has the resources to go and update the previous build trees and tooltips.
This… is concerning to a degree.
They are really focusing on shipping it on the 23rd/26th.
I get it, they have to prioritize and if those change will be done anyway on another patch/build, you’re kind of doing the same things twice which isn’t ideal when you’re short on time.
But I have never seen Blizzard in this situation or at least have an implicit acknowledgement that this is where they’re at.
In context, I don’t think I’ve ever seen a comment from Blizzard say soo much in so few words.
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Doesn’t the DoT and CD interact with haste? Just the gcd does not interact with haste.
Yeah should’ve just said “weird haste interaction”
For the DoT, idk, does it?
Never seemed like it affected our other dots like truth wakes and expurg but I could be wrong, it’s not an obvious interaction that someone would notice from playing.
Expurgation and Truth’s Wake are affected by haste. Templar Slash’s DoT is not. That’s probably a bug and should be reported.
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Not to sure if this is the proper place, but anyway…
Finally got on the beta and tried out the actual Talents we’re most likely to eventually receive (I still can’t believe how Blizz screwed up, giving us the old Talents from before). Although I’m sure Crusading Strikes will be relevant in TWW, nevertheless I tried out the Templar Strikes build.
Man, I’m almost concerned Blizz will look our way again. Gathering HoPo was NOT a problem in the slightest. And with Radiant Glory, we seem to have near constant access to HoW. Combine that with our other spells, even our generators are powerful and important to our rotation.
Now, of course tuning will ultimately decide if we’re gonna be viable, but as of now, ret feels real good to me. I’m really hoping Blizz doesn’t screw us over at the last minute. 
My only complaint: I wish they would make the visuals of Empyrean Hammers more brighter. I can barely see them (maybe I’m blind, I don’t know). 
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Equally concerned about Ret viability, mostly in pvp. Getting a few but not most of the better talents from Beta on live now is a non issue for me, no current live Ret goals. I would have liked to see everything in prepatch and functional thats on Beta, but I’m sure that would be a bunch more work.
My Ret anxiety is from live experience, not beta experience. Dots dispelled, tierset Dots dispelled, Forbearance is a huge liability in pvp, dispelled defensives, Blessing of Spellwarding not warding magical CC, use BoS or BoP on anyone and then it puts both on CD for 4-5 min, dispelled and stolen utility like Blessing of Freedom, strongly visually telegraphed abilities like Avenging Wrath/Crusade and Divine Steed are CC magnets, tiny 1/20th of my healthbar WoGs with wings active is a pointless button in Prepatch, Justicar’s Vengeance is a wasted talent due to being pathetic compared to FV before it was nerfed a bunch. The amount of pvp specific nerfs to survivability, healing and damage is nuts.
I heal more as MM from the safety of twice the range and do much more damage while suffering from less crowd control. I want to see an incentive from design or damage improvements to play Ret at all.
Ret has no instant mobility, no disarm, no MS, no invisibility, no knockback, a very weak dispellable slow, gets inturupted and silenced if it uses Searing glare or Repentance, targets are no longer affected by blinding light if hit by a light breeze, if it cant get the average number of great pvp abilities/tools the other melee have, how bout the Devs let it do what it use to, good damage and healing.
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