Crate Farming is GREAT and Shouldn't Be Removed or Nerfed

Introduction

Introduced in BFA, War Mode crates were designed as a way to promote world pvp. As of TWW, they can give you conquest points if you loot them more than once per day. This has lead to the formation of raids where people will set up timers and take a tour through each of the different zones to pick up the next crate drop. Many have been calling for this to be nerfed/removed. So in this thread, I’d like to elucidate on why being able to farm crates is GOOD for the game and why either nerfing or removing it is a bad idea.

Reasons why crate farming is great.

1. It allows catching up on gear if you join mid season.

One common barrier of entry to PvP that has been known for many years is that if you are joining mid season, it feels demoralizing to step into a random BG and get melted by people who have been playing longer than you and have more gear. Over the years, Blizzard has attempted many things to remedy this but they either didn’t work or weren’t respectful of the time that people put in to gear their character.

-In patch 5.3, they gave everyone 65% base resilience but they eventually removed resilience in WoD

-In Legion, they introduced stat templates where your stats would only go up by 1% for every 10 item levels you gain which were removed in the next expansion

-In 9.1.5, they added additional upgrade brackets for conquest gear. But in the next expansion, PvP gear was changed to only have fewer PvP item level brackets like in WoD.

But with TWW, an simple solution was found. One that didn’t require that didn’t require a vast resource investment, makes use of an already existing game mode, and doesn’t involve having to get matched up against people who outgear you.

2. It facilitates people grouping up en masse and co-operating with each other.

In order for a crate raid to be able to do what it’s intended, people in the group have certain roles to play. Members of the raid have to go to each zone, wait for a crate to drop in it, and give the time to the raid leader or whoever is using the addon that tracks timers. This level of players working together towards a common goal isn’t quite something that exists anywhere else in the game. And encouraging people to play and work together is one of the core facets of an MMORPG.

3. It makes War Mode relevant and a viable source of gearing

I love War Mode. It’s my favorite PvP game mode. And crates give people a reason to go out into the world again. In a game that puts a lot of it’s primary focus towards instanced content, it’s good that the outdoor world has relevancy and is therefore a viable source of progression unlike before.

Common arguments people bring up against crate farming

So it wouldn’t be fair to make this thread without bringing up all the common arguments people have against it so I’d like to take a moment to address them here.

1. “Crate raids make people ignore instanced PvP!”

This is just not true. Random BG queue times as Horde are 2-3 minutes tops and Alliance can easily get in on that if they use mercenary mode. Solo Shuffle and Battleground Blitz queues can take a while yes, but this is and always has been due to a shortage of healers. Solo Shuffle queue times were long as far back as DF which was way before crate raids came to be.

In fact, I’d argue that crate raids get more people into instanced PvP. You need conquest gear to be competitive in rated PvP to begin with. Most people looking to get into PvP find it demoralizing to step into a random BG or a rated match find it demoralizing to get melted by a 10+ year PvP player that is more geared. Crate farming makes this issue non-existent.

2. “They aren’t real PvP”

Crate groups often run into another crate group of the opposing faction which can lead to epic fights. That definitely sounds like PvP to me.

It’s also not entirely out of the ordinary for some PvE to be included in PvP game modes or objectives. PvP WQ’s allow you to kill mobs to get credit for the quest if other players are not around. In BG’s like AV or IOC, the final objective is to kill a PvE boss. And you can get credit for sparks quests by killing rares.

3. “Crate raids are boring!”

This is just a matter of opinion really. I can tell you what’s boring (and frustrating), sitting in a 10-20 minute long BG Blitz queue, losing due to bad luck or another circumstance, and it taking that much longer to get gear for the week.

And it’s not like getting every crate is guaranteed either. There’s the possibility of the raid missing it, running into an opposite faction crate raid, or changing shards.

Conclusion:

PvP gearing has never been in a better spot than it is in TWW. Crate raids are just another W that was added for PvP’ers in this expansion. It does not have any caveats what so ever that justifies it’s removal. With many efforts being made over the course of WoW’s 20+ year lifespan to make PvP more accessible, removing this way of being able to gear up would be very counterproductive.

TLDR: Crate farming is a good thing for the game and there is no reason to remove it.

Edit: Spelling, formatting, and added a TLDR.

8 Likes

tldr?

Not sure what an appropriate TLDR would be.

But I’d say the jist of what my thread is about is in the title.

we got enough base racers and leavers in randoms already
if you want to farm and not actually pvp theres your conq farm its the crates
if they remove it then where are all these nubs gonna be? randoms thats where

I edited one in just now.

When has this not been a thing?

Since when have random BG’s ever been a reliable conquest farm aside from the middle of the season?

Do you really think that only people who do crate raids are those who are new to PvP?

People use it to catch up on alts mid season.

1 Like

Think it should stay, but I also think I should be able to play PvP in unrated for a decent conquest inflow. Give more for wins and some for losses.

5 Likes

It’s also just. So much fun getting dismounts and knockbacks on them all. It IS still PvP lol. Someone logged over to whisper me once and said they reporting me because I killed their character. Just. With war mode on. PvPing. It’s fascinating.

2 Likes

just don’t use chat ai or whatever that was

I didn’t use AI.

The contents of my OP came from the soul

Sorry brother but I’ve got to hard disagree with you here, crate farming is awful.

The conquest from crates should honestly be nerfed, and Blizzard should buff other sources instead (such as random battlegrounds, making Sparks of Life repeatable, conquest for losses in close matches in BG Blitz / Arena, etc).

Right now, crate farms just kill WPvP. It’s a raid group of 40 people stomping out the 5-10 players they encounter. And let’s be real, whenever a crate raid does find opposition, such as another crate raid, they don’t stick around. They shard hop because the goal isn’t PvP, it’s efficiency. An acquaintance of mine who runs these groups literally DM’d me once on Discord after I wiped his crate group, saying he was going to swap shards to stay clear of me. That says it all.

I get that catching up on gear mid season can be a hurdle, but crates shouldn’t be the solution. Why do crate raids, which involve almost no actual PvP, give non diminishing Conquest rewards (60 per crate) while random BGs which are 100% PvP, have diminishing rewards? You win one BG and get your chunk of Conquest and any consecutive wins give you like 10… Even though a BG takes 10-15 minutes. Make it make sense.

Crates don’t encourage world PvP, they kill it. Raid groups just rotate shards and steamroll any locals, wiping out the chance for organic fights. That’s what retail WPvP is missing, organic fights that currently make PvP servers in Classic iterations so much fun.

We’ve given good suggestions before, but Blizzard keeps ignoring them because they don’t really care for WPvP. Easy simple solutions that require WPvP, like buffing Sparks of Life and make it repeatable for catch up, could encourage small scale skirmishes and group fights. There’s a few other things too but that’s for another topic.

6 Likes

Just get rid of having to farm a second set of pvp gear.

Scale Honor gear to 723, problem solved.

1 Like

I don’t think that’s really the issue. What I do think they should do is get rid of the super-low ilvl crafted PvP gear (the one below honor gear) and instead make that the minimum scaling baseline.

So, if someone is severely under geared, like they just hit lvl 80 or whatever, theyd still get scaled up to that baseline so that they’re not getting instantly deleted the second they step into a fight. WoD had a similar system like this for battlegrounds… I thought it worked great.

That way, people who put in the time to farm honor or conquest still have an advantage, but fresh 80s and casual players at least get a fighting chance instead of just being free HKs.

I don’t disagree with any of this.

But none of these would help a fresh 80 going into BG’s and getting instantly steamrolled by people with better gear.

I think this is a bit of an exaggeration really. Crate raids aren’t there to monopolize the zone in it’s entirety.

They go to said zone for one purpose and one purpose only and once they get what they came for, they are out just like that.

That’s not entirely true.

I’ve been in crate raids where we sometimes don’t get the crate because either we missed it just barely or the Alliance got it. And what did we do in response? We just accepted the L for what is was and moved on.

It’s the only solution implemented that makes the most sense really and accounts for the predicament that a fresh 80 or someone catching up on gear mid season will find themself in.

Most solutions I’ve seen people offer either don’t account for the fact that an undergeared player will still get matched up with people who outgear them or are contradictory to why they think crate raids shouldn’t be a thing in the first place.

For example, people against crates say they aren’t real PvP but have suggested bringing in Comp Stomp as a permanent game mode. So what you’re telling me is, going after crates where you often have to fight the opposing faction isn’t real PvP but fighting against bots is?

I can think of a few other things that kill or ruin “organic” world PvP.

  1. Sharding/Phasing
  2. Flying mounts
  3. The game being 20+ years old and therefore having a plethora of zones that the already small population of players can be in

And these are all just natural parts of the game that you just can’t remove. You can’t remove sharding/phasing because the game is designed around that now and it’s a necessity for reducing lag in zones. You can’t remove flying mounts because they are so deeply embedded into the game. And with the game being 20+ years old and there being that many zones, it’s not hard to understand why you don’t always find people in every one of them.

This isn’t a bad idea either.

1 Like

Zero, Zero reasons, You pve players will always force bad gameplay down the throat of others, crates is a pve mode because you never die to others when doing em. You must have 0 clue what real pvp is it seems

Plenty of reasons actually.

But you have no knowledge of the history of PvP in this game.

Try reading my OP and it will perfectly spell it out.

LOL What?

It’s not possible to die eh?

So, if people who are pro crate farming don’t know what real PvP is, wouldn’t you be part of that group? Considering your stance on it from a different thread:

2 Likes

NICE MISQUOTE LOL TRY READING IN FULL CONTEXT, dying 2 times after a few hundred crates is still basically pve

Sorry man, but the “full context” doesn’t make what you said less contradictory.

You stated that you never die to other while in crate raids, to which I pointed out that you gave a first hand account of times where you did die in crate raids.

Just stop with these threads already.

You clearly don’t know what you’re talking about and PvP is obviously not for you.

This is an internal contradiction, you made the claim theres no caveats and then acknoledged many others making complaints/problems brought up, which pairing with ur first claim makes ZERO sense

claims PvP gearing is in a perfect state, which would logically make a specific catch-up mechanic like crate farming unnecessary. The existence of a problem (needing to catch up) contradicts the claim that the system is already “perfect.”

Nah, as a long time PvP’er, I’m going to continue providing feedback on how what Blizzard has been doing with PvP in this expansion is great and when appropriate, how it can be further improved or iterated upon.

Have a nice day.

EDIT: So you really edited your post after my response eh?

It really isn’t a contradiction.

Because I addressed the arguments people have against it and point how how it has no net negative effects on the game.

Or how about this … the fact that a reliable catch-up mechanic exists is what contributes to PvP gearing be in a perfect state.

Although I don’t bother with crate farming myself, I don’t understand the hate for it. It’s just currency.

1 Like