Agreed, a close win in a random BG should give you some conquest like it does in 10v10 RBG’s.
Preach it!
Yeah I mean, it’s not like it’s mandatory or anything.
You’re honor level 84 with less than 10k hks. Are you really going to tell people they don’t know what PvP is?
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Someone didnt read
Also hiding behind a lvl17 gnome alt with 0 achieves and hundreds of posts…I could only imagine why
My classic toon being my posting character doesn’t change the fact you’re trying to role play as a PvPer with sub-10k hks and a low honor level.
I have 31989honor kills, regardless it makes 0 difference, if you cant discuss points and just attack things outside of discussion on a alt, i think that speaks volumes
i started in bfa and didnt really play till this xpac anyways
My point is you’re telling someone who pvp’s regularly and has likely played the game/pvp far longer than you that pvp is not for them and you’re sub-100 honor level lol.
Again you didnt read anything lol
I was doing to him what he does to me and others, its beyond dumb to tell someone this and be serious about it. If you shut down all opinions others make just because they’re not your own, then you are contributing to a toxic community, pvp players are bleeding enough, we dont need to constantly tell others that they are ignorant and shouldnt speak. Use a bit of rationality 
He is right though. You’re complaining about gearing in the expansion that has the easiest gearing in the history of the game lmao.
The only thing that they could honestly improve is class balance in PvP and lessening or removing one shots but the only way to do that is to slow the game down like it was in mop.
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This is hilarious.
You aren’t forced to do crates.
You get more conquest from rated victories than crates.
If you’re so good at pvp and love only getting conquest from victories, where’s the issue?
You just don’t want people to be able to gear up.
You want to gate gearing through victories, when you’re already geared and others aren’t.
Gear up early, block all others from getting geared for as long as possible for the rest of the season.
TL;TS:
You want to slow others down.
You aren’t actually slowed down.
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Why not just make comp stomp always available and have it give conquest then?
(I do not support that, but it’s an example of how silly crate farm raids are)
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Crate raids require time and coordination to set up. And it’s possible to not get all of them due to either shard changing or the opposite faction getting the crate.
Comp stomp on the other hand is impossible to lose and is nothing more than just fighting against bots at will.
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Weird. I thought crate raids were as simple as looking for one in the group finder and joining it? I also am not aware of how you can lose at a crate raid.
So what’s the difference? They are both auto win modes with a low barrier of entry with no PvP to speak of.
Yes, for the people joining one after it has been set up. But you aren’t taking into account what it takes for the group to be able to do what it’s intended. I went over it in my OP here:
As I explained here:
Crate raids require both factions to fight over a crate which means one faction won’t get it.
In Comp Stomp, you fight against bots so it’s fairly easy for the players to win.
The former includes PvP and isn’t auto win where as the latter is the exact opposite.
I like crate farms as well. The recent trend of capitalizing on them is sketchy though. But okay, it’s work to maintain shards and people pay, so it’s their right.
But it begs a question: do we then really need gear if everyone will eventually just get used to mindlessly farming these crates? Not having gear is just going to be a noob trap instead of a legit progression.
It does tickle the dopamine receptors though. And it kinda mirrors PvE as well where world content is the entry level to instances content.
I would love it if random BGs awarded a fat bag of conquest per win though. It’s no longer a prestige currency, and it’s always nice to have a choice where to grind for gear on alts.
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You can collect crates without raids.
That occurs.
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But players joining the crate farm raid do not need to do that. All they do is join the raid and fly around.
Again, remote possibilities. Not much higher than the chance you lose at comp stomp.
You do realize that most crates are uncontested, right? I’d say about 3 out of 5 crates than I get solo are uncontested in Alliance’s favor, 1 out of 5 uncontested in Horde’s favor, and the other 1 out of 5 crates are actually fought over.
I’d beg to differ. It’s already auto win most of the time and doesn’t include PvP most of the time while playing solo in current season zones like K’aresh a few weeks after season start. Having a raid with you would just make it even more so and probably a lot of the reason why so few crates are contested because most people are in a giant raid on separate shards.
And just to be clear this doesn’t affect me. I can count on 3 fingers the number of times I’ve lost a crate to a crate raid in War Within. I just think we should encourage PvP participation by fixing the PvP reward structure.
But again, how is this different from comp stomp?
Not exactly remote if you play Horde in War Mode.
And it’s much harder to lose comp stomp than it is to miss a crate.
It depends on the shard. Most of the time when I am out in the world not in a raid, the Alliance always get the crate.
If anything, crate raids guarantee that the Horde has a shot at getting them because the Alliance outnumber us in War Mode.
Yes because you’re Alliance. And you outnumber the Horde in War Mode.
I’ve lost crates a handful of times while in groups.
WDYM exactly by “fixing the PvP reward structure”?
PvP gearing has never been in a better spot than it is now.
I answered this in my previous post.
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Yes, we are all aware you don’t play the game.
Did you actually read the thread? He answered all of this fairly clearly in the thread.
2. “They aren’t real PvP”
Crate groups often run into another crate group of the opposing faction which can lead to epic fights. That definitely sounds like PvP to me.
It’s also not entirely out of the ordinary for some PvE to be included in PvP game modes or objectives. PvP WQ’s allow you to kill mobs to get credit for the quest if other players are not around. In BG’s like AV or IOC, the final objective is to kill a PvE boss. And you can get credit for sparks quests by killing rares.
1. “Crate raids make people ignore instanced PvP!”
This is just not true. Random BG queue times as Horde are 2-3 minutes tops and Alliance can easily get in on that if they use mercenary mode. Solo Shuffle and Battleground Blitz queues can take a while yes, but this is and always has been due to a shortage of healers. Solo Shuffle queue times were long as far back as DF which was way before crate raids came to be.
In fact, I’d argue that crate raids get more people into instanced PvP. You need conquest gear to be competitive in rated PvP to begin with. Most people looking to get into PvP find it demoralizing to step into a random BG or a rated match find it demoralizing to get melted by a 10+ year PvP player that is more geared. Crate farming makes this issue non-existent.
As for me. I think the alternative of going in long bgs and getting farmed only for the chance to get a tiny bit of conquest that diminishes each win would suck. That wouldn’t be fun at all.
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No, but that’s where the other suggestion I made, which was having a baseline ilvl scaling for undergeared players, comes in. We had something like this in WoD, and it made a huge difference. If Blizzard brought it back, fresh 80s wouldnt get completley erased the second they step into a BG. That would do way more for PvP health than letting crate farming be the default optimal gearing path.
Right now, I get that crates feel like the only “viable” way to gear an alt or catch up mid season, but that shouldn’t be the standard. Crates dont really add anything of value to PvP outside of being an easy way to farm Conquest without actually needing to engage in PvP.
It’s really not an exaggeration though. These are full raid groups hopping around from shard to shard, tracking crates, and steamrolling any locals who happen to be there. Normally, shards at least try to balance factions (different topic on that though), but a raid group bypasses that completely. The end result? They wipe anyone nearby and move on.
That wipes out the chance for any organic WPvP. If a crate raid wasn’t there, you might actually see a fair fight break out between locals. Instead, you just get a zerg rolling over everyone.
I’m not talking about the rare times you miss one because a few locals got there first. I’m talking about when you do run into opposition (which is rare as is). The second a crate raid realizes there’s another full raid on the shard, they just skip that zone/shard entirely. Why? Because fighting wastes time and messes up their optimized route. They’re chasing efficiency, not WPvP.
You can say all you want how crates are a great way to get Conquest for alts, which is true don’t get me wrong, but that doesn’t make them healthy for PvP. They only feel necessary because Blizzard hasn’t given us better catch up systems.
At the moment, yes, but that’s only because Blizzard hasn’t tried other options. They could:
- Buff Sparks of Life’s conquest rewards and make the quest repeatable in different zones if you’re behind, which would actually encourage WPvP in multiple areas instead of everyone piling on one zone.
- Change BG rewards to non diminishing Conquest rewards, such as 80 for a win, 40 for a close loss. That rewards actual PvP rather than just PvE’ing crates.
- Or come up with brand new systems designed for real PvP progression.
There are plenty of healthier alternatives to catch up, they’ve just chosen not to implement them.
That’s just part of an MMORPG. Gear advantage will always exist unless Blizzard fully normalizes it. They could mitigate it with something like WoD style minimum ilvl scaling for undergeared players, but if you’re arguing that gear should matter, then yes, sometimes you’re going to face players who outgear you. That’s just the reality of it.
My issue with crate raids isn’t the gearing angle, it’s just that they’re actively unhealthy for WPvP. The “healthy for PvP” argument only works if you believe crate farming = PvP. Which I don’t.
That’s because Comp Stomp serves a different purpose. It’s meant to be a training ground for newer players to learn BG mechanics in a safe environment. That IS healthy for PvP long term, since it helps new players get comfortable before stepping into real matches. When people ask for Comp Stomp to be permanent, it’s not because they want it to be another conquest farm, they want it to help grow the PvP playerbase.
I mean I agree, I’ve said this before in the past, sharding is a massive issue for War Mode. Back in Legion, lowbies being ganked in Hellfire or Darkshire turned into big organic fights when people called in backup. That doesn’t really happen anymore because things like Chromie Time and sharding keep the players separated.
Flying mounts are less of a problem and are only really bad because we can’t dismount effectively, but if you fix that and give us more tools, flying wouldn’t be such a killer for WPvP.
World Defense channel being broken by sharding also killed a lot of organic defense fights. Was a huge loss to the WPvP community.
So yeah, there are multiple things harming WPvP… but I’d also add crate raids to that list, especially since Blizzard could replace them with healthier Conquest sources.
I’m not saying remove it entirely, but at the very least, War Mode should have far fewer layers. If you compare WM to non WM, the open world feels way more alive on non-WM. Sure, PvP players are a smaller slice of the population, but that’s even more reason to keep them together instead of splitting them across layers.
And honestly, Blizzard really needs to update their server infrastructure. It’s kind of wild that private servers (looking at you, turtlewow) can handle 13k+ players online at once with no layering and no lag, while Blizzard claims it’s impossible.
Yeah of course I read it, he’s a guildie and I always like seeing his take on things. I just respectfully disagree. I don’t think crate farming is making people skip instanced PvP, so I’m with him there. But I do believe crate raids aren’t real PvP. Crate groups almost never run into each other, and when they do, maybe you get one big fight because it cant be avoided, but after that, they just shard hop or move zones to stay on schedule. They’re chasing efficiency, not WPvP, because a drawn out 40v40 means missing the next crate drop.
That’s why I don’t buy the idea that crate raids are “healthy” for world PvP. They’re really just organized PvE with the occasional scuffle, and they push out the kind of organic fights that make War Mode fun in the first place.
TL;DR: The hate isn’t about free gear, it’s that crate raids aren’t real PvP. They’re giant efficiency farms that shard-hop to avoid fights, which kills off organic WPvP.