I’m not even advocating for the over all covenant ability I just want the class one to be unlocked
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The only saving grace on my Frost DK is that I can easily pull aggro at range. So long as I target melee toons, keeping the mobs focused on me is a lot easier. But yeah … DK and mobility don’t go hand in hand.
I’ve even made jokes about “imagine your character as a monster.”
“The water! It doesn’t slow him down. It freezes under his feet! Throw the nets, anything to slow him down!”
“It’s not working sir! He’s still progressing toward us!”
IE Path of Frost then Death’s Advance.
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You realize logs are by spec right? Like having 90 logs in a dead spec is easy I had a bunch of top 100s playing ww I was also middle to bottom in terms of damage because it just wasn’t that good unless you were absolutely insane at it like consistent top 10 level insane.
Both of them need to be honestly or I think I’m going to end up stuck nature boys just because that movement cd.
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I find it fun to maximize my own play but it’s not like I’m playing an optimal spec either for M+ yet I still play it. I just hate the idea that I am artificially limited by my story choice in certain areas of content. That’s incredibly dumb and it takes away from my choice in story because I will play w/e is best. I can control my own performance so I will do my utmost to maximize it within reason I can’t control others so I don’t try to.
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I am gonna have the AoE hunter ability from necrolords, I would prefer the single target from Venthyr but the necrolord abillity isnt useless nor does it feel bad, I will use that in many situations since that extra AoE can often be useful and live with it.
If you feel useless and bad because the abillity isnt the best for X then clearly that seems like a personal issue.
I chose based on identity and aesthetic and will be fine with that ability not being my most preferred since I can play around with it just as well.
Thankfully with the repeated statements that they are part of our identity and that it will be seen as a whole with soulbinds and legendaries so I am pretty confident they ll be going live with it.
I mean you arent wrong but I am not sure what you can even do in that situation, you need to have a level of realistic expectations.
As much as I wish MM is improved in pvp and advocate for it the only thing I can do is wait for them to try balance it and I know this wont be happening now that they are busy with shadowlands.
My point is that you can compare class and spec imbalance to covenants, you arent allowed to switch classes on the go, why should you be able to switch covenants on the go?
Of course FotMers are gonna reroll, so why should they not suffer the same long consequences for covenants. FotMers are the lowest of the low so nobody should be listening to them.
Also I missed your sardonic comment at the end you realize it isn’t that hard to just be nice to people right?
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Yeah works for pulling aggro but if I need to actually move to get out of a telegraph for example I feel like the dark legacy comic where the gnomes are going back and forth in black morass and one drowns under water. Just feels so slow vs people with multiple dashes or blinks or disengages etc.
No argument there. I feel like they made DKs as slow as the lich king during that one dungeon. Where he’s purposely being slow. He’s trying to drive fear into the lot of you.
And they seem to think that’s how DKs should move ALL the time.
Yup most RPGs offer varied choices.
Covenants are very draconian and offer narrow choices. Big step back for the game to rely on rentals to offer limited choices.
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That’s just it, min/maxing mindset is just that, it’s literally about a numbers game. If it’s about an ability itself, then that’s one thing. I don’t mean abililty damage, I mean if it were like “oh here’s an aoe silence” which would be best used in pvp and/or mythic, pvp mostly. Like… people just need to get over this “muh numbers” thing, especially when it’s alpha. ALPHA is never about numbers. ever, yet you’ve got people saying “but the balance numbers!” yeah, they can tune the numbers in beta, in live. they can tune those in. If it’s “muh pvp ability vs an amazing raid utility” or something like that, it’s a bit different, though still the same concept.
People fail to realize, this has no impact on your ability to pug. Guilds, on the other hand, Idk because guilds vary so much that there will be a lot who just don’t care and a lot who do care. “But my numbers” is not an argument to be made during alpha. Alpha is not there to tune in numbers, beta is. Alpha is there for gameplay flow, mechanics, and other things that do not relate to numbers or how much damage you’re going to be putting out/getting from these things.
That’s why people are speaking up now, because the Covenant choice clearly is more than just about squeezing out some extra numbers. It’s very much about which content you do the most, and you are going to be severely at a disadvantage in other content. Imagine you like to raid with your guild, but do M+ on off nights and like to push keys. You are quite literally going to need to roll a completely separate character to push keys because you are putting yourself at that much of a disadvantage because you’ve made your Covenant choice based on raiding and not M+. This won’t just affect those high end world first Mythic raiders, it will affect a huge swath of players that like to do more than just one type of content. You don’t even need to look at the numbers to know that this is what will happen, just look at the ability choices for each Covenant and see for yourself.
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Right, many of us play the game as an RPG, not an e-sport. That’s why we want to keep the RPG elements in this MMORPG. We want our characters to be unique, have a unique story, and not be a blank slate where you pick its attributes depending on the situation (like a MOBA). You’re literally coming to an RPG game and ruining it by calling for the removal of RPG elemnets.
Tell you what, let’s meet half way. Maybe Blizzard can make it to where you can choose to NOT have a covenant. In this case you would have access to all covenant abilities and binds (and could switch them like talents), but won’t have access to the covenant specific transmogs. If you choose a covenant and have to stick to it (like I would, because I want to play an RPG and not a MOBA), you can only choose the covenant’s abilities and perks, but you get access to their transmogs (since you actually chose them, pledged yourself to them). This way you could have access to all the abilities you want to min/max (to do heroic and mythic), but you let us that want to play an RPG actually get the RPG experience…
You’re not, though. This is what people are not understanding. They do NOT want you to be optimized in ALL content. That completely disregards the RPG aspect of the MMORPG. The RPG says no, you have advantages and disadvantages to every class/spec/decision you make and no, you should NOT be optmized or adept/good at every little thing in this game. Yes, understand this means you are not going to be optimal, that is a tradeoff with the RPG aspect of a game. You decide/choose on one thing, then you are lesser in others. That is the very essence of “choices that matter” which is what their philosophy is and should always remain.
This is also why I keep telling people they’re spoiled. They’re trying to min/max every aspect of the game to make their characters then not so disadvantaged in something, but that goes completely against this choice philosophy because then your choices do NOT matter. The only way they matter is based off of the consequences of a failure. That’s how we, as humans, measure everything psychologically, and why we, as human beings, remember every bad thing before every good thing that happens to us. The bad impacts much greater than the good, so if nothing bad happens, theres barely any impact that you actually feel. This does not generate good feelings towards a game, as moments of excitement ONLY come if there is opportunity for failure. If there’s no bad, then there’s no good.
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By playing MM i have accepted that I am severely disadvantages in other content, what exactly would you suggest? That blizzard should give all underperforming specs in X content a free lvl and gear boost to another class so they can do better in that content?
Everything said about covenants can be said about the current spec/class balance.
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I don’t get the love for orbs or devouring plague.
I hate combo points. I hate devouring plague. It doesn’t fit thematically. I love the sanity idea, and I adore void form, just hate how it’s currently working. No class should require thousands of points in one stat for its gameplay to feel fluid, and that’s how shadow feels without high haste - bad.
Maybe make void form a CD. 1.5 or 2 minute CD that increases damage dealt somehow.
And for the love of god do something about power infusion.
This sounds so pointless if you have ever dealt with Blizzard. I swear to god this is their process.
- Alright guys lets create a pointless problem that can be EASILYYYYY avoided
- Alright lets build a bunch of systems and layers around this pointless problem to solve the problem we created
- Confused why playerbase is enraged about broken systems.
Swear I’ll never figure out this Ion guy. After how horrible BFA has gone you would be think his hubris would be in check by now.
I guess whatever roll out this goofy system and ruin what would have been a decent expansion.
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Sometimes, yes, othertimes, it is not that their systems are broke but that the playerbase got so spoiled that the playerbase is broke. Yes, I will call the playerbase broken since spoiled players, wanting to be the end all creation there… able to be gods at ST, AoE, cleave, spread cleave, solo content, world content, raiding content, pvp content, top of the charts in every aspect of the game content while not having a single disadvantage. Yes, those are spoiled players. That is not how any game should function and every game should function as a tradeoff system with pros and cons.
If a developer/creator wanted to make a game where everyone was godly, there would be literally 3 classes; 1 that can only tank, 1 that can only heal, 1 that can only damage. Each of these 3 classes would have 1 button that is an AoE and ST ability that can be used as many times as you can press that button and everyone would have the same exact gear so everyone is both at the top of the charts and at the bottom of the charts, functionally all 100% the same.
We have 36 specs, thus meaning blizzard does not want to go down that route of every player every class every spec having lots of advantages and no disadvantages. Good at AoE? You should suck at ST. Good at ST? You should suck at AoE. Good at cleave? You should be good at ST but bad at spread cleave. Good at spread cleave? You should be decent at ST and more than likely bad at AoE. Checks and balances.
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I support blizzard here. It shouldn’t be like Skyrim lol where you can join any faction you want.
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Exactly. If this were the case, get rid of factions. Get rid of classes. Get rid of races. Get rid of boss most of a boss’s hp where you can 1 shot any raid boss, current expansion or not.
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