yikes its late here
haha such a hostile thread we are all getting caught in the cross fire
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Exactly. This myth needs to end that only the world first raiders in Method care about min/maxing when it’s also the people you see casually discussing the lore and comparing transmog sets who also happen to be in a guild that raids Mythic. I don’t understand where this crazy idea that anyone who does high end content is an elitist jerk who can’t possibly care about anything else in the game outside of Mythic raiding, especially not cosmetics or lore.
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I dont personally have any issues with min maxers, I am sure many people like that and are free to do it albeit will have to work harder for it and they will as pretty much all world first guilds are gonna level multiple of the same class to be in all covenants.
Like I said my issue comes from the people who are not world first and absolutely do not need to min max, as well as the fact that the very same people often arent happy with min maxing themselves but they want everyone ELSE to min max too, it doesnt matter if the meta build is a brain dead cancer to play, you must do that cuz muh sim dps.
The same people also are often the bad ones who cant fully perform well and instead of ralizing they are wiping because people are failing mechanics or some simply dont perform well they try to pretend that the person who performed well with the sub optimal build is the problem, while in reality that is NEVER TRUE outside of world first.
These people are quite literally toxic to everyone else, they are often bad performers, fail mechanics and try to blame others for their failings so I much rather have the game be mostly played by people who enjoy their class and perform well by learning it themselves rather than people who blindly follow guides and dont have a good grasp of their class or the game and instead will try to blame others or refuse to invite X class because community perception says its bad even though it performs perfectly fine for non world first content.
I have often played sub optimal classes in the past like spriest simply because I felt like maining X class and have consistently performed well in groups while a ton of m+ groups were refusing invites for any lock or spriest for even low level m+ that are a joke.
My point is that people dont NEED to min max, yet they keep saying they need to and being toxic to others, that is my real problem and the people I want to see gone form the game.
Sadly you can never truly escape that if you have to do pug content every now and then
But I am saying that there is a big difference between someone following a cookie cutter build and someone performing well by ilvl, the ilvl filtering shows you how well they do compared to all the other players on a similar ilvl which includes people using the same cookie cutter build, and some are bound to play the cookie cutter build to their max making the person who simply copies it have bad by ilvl logs.
What I am trying to say, you can as easily get acceptable by ilvl logs if they are bad, while they can dothat with normal logs
Yeah I pretty much just gear my characters up to do battle grounds and I don’t agree with getting locked into abilities
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I think a lot of the heat in this thread boils down to “Trust Blizzard, Trust Ion!”
And the other side is going, “We’re looking at his track record, we’re looking at their track record.”
And then of course a few trolls in the middle that only stir things up.
I mean, I’ve even seen a few anti-lfr threads where mythic raiders were straight up going “we’re ok with it staying.” It they were all truly elitist snobs, they’d be pushing for LFR to be removed. I’ve known a number of raiders at all levels, and they run the range from cool cats to straight up jerks. They’re just as varied as the ultra-casuals.
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Late? You must be overseas. Burn the heretic!
J/K.
I have friends on my server that play from Israel. It’s cool. Just had to make a silly joke.
The issue here is you’re assuming that Covenant choices are “min/maxing” in terms of picking something with so little difference just to squeeze out a few extra DPS points. But that is clearly not the case if you look at the Covenant system and what the abilities look like. It’s quite literally “choose this Covenant if you do Mythic raiding”, “choose this Covenant if you do M+”, and “choose this Covenant if you do PVP”. A huge majority of people in this game like to dabble in all of those things (maybe not PVP so much), and having to make a binary choice like that based on what content is most important to you is going to leave people feeling really frustrated. It won’t just be the world first raiders, either.
You need to go look at the Covenant system and their abilities and tell me the difference in choices is “min/maxing” and is only a difference of just squeezing out a few extra DPS points, because it is really not. That is not at all how it is designed. It’s like, here’s a really amazing AOE ability for M+, and here’s a really amazing single target ability for Mythic raiding. That’s what the system looks like, it’s not just a few extra DPS points and it’s not “min/maxing”.
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well at least they are being very up front with the fact that you will no longer be optimal in multiple forms of content based on which path you pick. I for 1 play the game for a large majority of content not bits and pieces. So i wish them good luck.
This is pretty much it
I also want people to stick around longer than they do, I want people to turn from casual to hardcore and I think a system that can punish people like that who do return and might not be sitting here hyping them selves up to join something and just flying blind don’t get buyers remorse at the end of it all
And what happens if you’re dead set on joining one covenant and end up getting the ability in the zone for a different one and just thinking you vibe so well with it to get stuck in the flavour vs ability inner debate where you’ll never know if you made the wrong choice
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I was mostly referring to the people with the “im dragging down my raid cuz I have a sub optimal builds and we are totes wiping because of that and not because people are failing mechanics of performing bad”.
I ve seen the abilities, I know they are clearly way better for X content as it stands and I am pretty sure they wont be able to balance them well, like for example I have no idea who thought mirror of torment shouldnt have stronger damage or stronger effects in pve.
it is a 2min CD and only has a real use in pvp and even then it isnt as well designed as it could be like “if ppl keep bursting the mirrors in quick succession they are hit with a huge burst” or “it is triggered by melee attacks so pve mobs also trigger it often”
Yeah they definitely need to focus a lot more on balancing, what would you suggest that because they are gonna not manage to balance things well we should destroy the rpg choice aspect?
In that case why not let us change classes for free without having to regear and pay a boost for them?
MM is sad in arenas, should I get a free class change and 470 geared any class I want because their balance is terrible?
IIRC you get to try out the Covenant abilities as you quest through the zones, and you make the decision to join a Covenant once you’ve completed all the zones. So there is at least that.
That’s the only saving grace. They have a few weeks once it goes live to realize “oh, we screwed up and made kyrian too strong and necrolord absolutely broken in pvp!”
You KNOW there will probably be some HUGE changes in the first few weeks. Especially once they see hard data from players on live. Many people do stuff on beta that they’d never do on live. Because they know there’s no long term consequences to doing so.
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I’m not a min maxer. I’m someone who wants to enjoy my gameplay and enjoy my aesthetic. Having an ability or legendary that feels useless to use makes gameplay feel bad. Having to play as (for example) a DK with angel wings feels bad. If I have to have unfun gameplay to have a cool aesthetic or have to have a ridiculously out of place aesthetic to have fun gameplay, I and many others, just won’t play.
And they’ll look dumb again if the system goes live as is.
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No you shouldn’t get a free class change blizzard shouldn’t have made the class suck in pvp in the first place then never address it
and thats why people fear this stuff coming out and regretting the “rpg choice” because they ability they got with it sucked compared to the other ones
Shamans have long been the whipping dog. We went LIVE in BfA, with blizzard admitting that they weren’t ready.
If they launch an expansion with an entire class in a questionable state, why shouldn’t we be concerned they’ll do the same with the Covenant system?
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The tank with 90 plus logs on the second highest played tank spec does say that yes.
I actually wanted to go angel because I find the concept of a dk trying to redeem themselves interesting but right now it seems like the nature faction might just be stupid strong because of the movement cd which is something I find myself sorely lacking.
There is a laundry list of issue that this can cause and the best way to solve it to just unlock the abilities
Everything else can stay the same
They can damn well use the soul thingy system to make the ability of the covenant choice better for all I care as long as we can unlock the others
Like all they need to do this throw an Npc in you talk to then get their ability and they can have some flavour lore text about joining up with them if we like their power so much
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I didn’t say we are wiping because of that I said I would feel like a detriment to my raid. Stop trying to twist words. Some people care about maximizing their own performance since it’s what they can control. I can’t control a hunter messing up a bait on vexiona I can control my own performace.
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Yeah without titanforging in the game anymore I do not care at all about lfr it was only annoying when it felt like an obligation to run it couldn’t care less about it existing now.
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