You need to go look at the Covenant abilities and systems if you think the only people who will choose the optimal Covenant for their class/spec/preferred content are just going to be these supposed “min/maxers”. That is not the case.
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I mean if you are looking to see someone’s level of skill, how else would you know if someone’s actually skilled without analyzing logs though?
There’s times you see people do really well DPS wise and think they are good and then find out through logs that they are been simply carried by gear or corruption and their by ilvl parses are terrible
You often see people do good DPS and then you check their logs by ilvl and have green or grey parses so they are clearly carried by gear or corruption.
All I am saying the only way to see if someone is skilled enough on their class logs are the main way to go.
Though I am talking about theory, not way I am gonna bother with checking every single raid person’s logs, though wouldnt be surprised if some ppl did and tbh considering how successful 2/2/6 groups can be I wouldnt be surprised.
says the tank lul, but hey feel free to blame me for playing something I enjoy instead of being an FotM noob xd
Also I am very happy with my logs, especially considering this is the 3rd week playing hunter, still dont have great corruptions and still dont have the desired azerite traits, and obviously I am not saying once i get those I ll go 99 but I am happy to see improvements :3
Once again talking about the delusional idea that anything other than same spec by ilvl parses matter, but hey feel free to compare yourself as a DPS to some mongo with extra good rng on infinte stars, definitely proves you are terrible since you are below them xD
Ah yes le social butterly, I do not participate in many fake social behaviors so much rather to stick to a few worthwhile people than pretending I have a ton of friends that arent that close but keep using the term.
This thread went south about as much as expected. Pretty much just an exchange of insults at this point.
You said:
Being able to make a choice to switch something - whether it’s your class/talents/covenant/spec doesn’t mean that they don’t matter and being locked in to a single choice isn’t necessarily “core” to RPGs.
I gave an example of a successful RPG that goes in the opposite direction by providing players flexibility highlighting that being restrictive doesn’t have to be a core part of an RPG.
Admittedly, yeah. People have this need that “if you aren’t experienced, then your input = 0” kinda thing. Hilariously enough, though, is that actually the 15 dollar subs are still the same! I hate that I cannot say a lot of bad words on here, as the forum will not let you post them due to flagging certain words or something, profanity filter, but yeah. It was a funny saying though! Just can’t really share it 
I would totally jump for joy and do a happy dance if this happened. I hate, hate, hate Voidform and always have. But I don’t think it will ever happen. 
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I mean true, that is why we need to get rid of bad players who keep screaming about “min maxing is necessary for my non world first content” and instead should focus on getting better on their classes
If these toxic people are enraged and unsub because of covenants we can always enjoy the game a lot better since we would have to deal less with literal tryhards who dont understand the game and try to force everyone to follow what their guide told them.
That is why many of us support the current system, not only because we like meaningful choices but because it can make those toxic people unsub or suffer leveling 4 characters as well as gearing them.
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And that’s the sad thing. People talk about wanting an RPG … and then it ends up with it devolving to “what numbers are best?”
And this is coming from a guy who wants STORY. But I’m going to have to look at numbers. Because I don’t trust Blizzard to balance them and make all 4 viable choices.
It’s why I quit playing a spriest after many years of playing one. I even like Voidform in like, raids and maybe even dungeons. But outside of raids it’s actually the worst, it makes doing anything on your own as a spriest so tedious and awful. If they just added like a talent or something to make your dots do more damage and you don’t get access to Voidform anymore just to be able to do stuff out in the world on your own, that would be a huge change to make spriests playable again for me.
So you know if you’re looking up people logs to judge them for how they play reinforces people trying to min max so they won’t get dunked on by someone looking up their stats right?
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While I agree … fair and balanced is perfectly fine. And if you’re actually involved in the story, just saying “well switch if your covenant sucks” is kind of like saying “lore, who cares.” except for many, they do care. Because for many, the story DOES matter.
RP folks, lore nerds, they both care about the story. And if the story is as consistent as many politicians promises due to poorly balanced covenants … its going to hurt.
You can still care about something even if it doesn’t personally affect you. Because I have friends who will be affected. I can see how PvP will be affected. I can see how lore nerds can be affected.
If its not balanced, it WILL indeed affect a LOT of people. Thus, I speak up.
Yeah expect the story folk have the same experience everyone does and then if they don’t choose to go on to do higher end content then they don’t really see the problems that come up
That is why I focus by ilvl, a bad player can min max all they want and might have good looking logs, but once you filter by ilvl then you see if they are actually somewhat good or not
If a player knows their class their by ilvl logs will be better as what is carrying them is often their skill rather than meta build or gear. Of course that also highly depends on the complexity of the spec but its the best we have.
My logs arent terrible yet I dont follow the best build and can still perform well on my 3rd week as mm hunter and can do content just fine, that is my point rly.
I can semi agree with your point because I don’t agree with the min-max philosophy either. I play this game for fun and entertainment and tend to avoid the min-max crowd altogether. Frankly they never really affect my game play because I simply do not let them.
I just see it as pointless to be needlessly antagonistic towards each other. Different people like different things and I feel stabbing at each other with word-shivs does not make for a civilized debate and is just unfortunate to read. I can understand being passionate about such things but at a certain point is it not better to agree to disagree? The so-called “fight against toxicity” has no end and diverging opinions leading to personal insults will only grow a conflict more than it needs to.
I feel that if people disagree with a system in-game they should make a constructive case to blizz as doing it towards each other leads to…well what is so eloquently written in this thread.
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And plenty of people who care about the story do high end content. I don’t know why so many people are convinced it’s this binary choice that you can only care about one aspect of this game at a time, when that is not the case at all.
Yeah
that exactly why people follow cookie cutter builds
because they want to perform incase someone like you look them up
yeah im pretty sure if you reread what I wrote you’ll see I see that
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Yeah sorry my reply was agreeing with you.
Oh, I love the CONCEPT. But, we shouldn’t have to be afraid that we’ll spend two months of progress into the expansion on building standing with a Covenant only for them to be nerfed into the ground.
I mean, I still remember Warlocks during Legion getting vote-kicked … JUST because they were warlocks. And it happened often enough I remembered it being a thing.
Exactly. I speak up because while I don’t do those things, I can see how it might affect them. RPing in WoW ain’t my thing. But I know many people who enjoy it. So, if their story is interrupted by poorly balanced Covenants and they’re forced to change to stay even halfway competitive … that’s going to suck.
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