Difference is that people won’t care about it because they knew what they were getting into when they picked that class. They picked it because it was the one they wanted to play. Covenants are not classes. They are just a single ability and a couple passives that don’t affect your rotation or the way your class functions. They just increase % done.
1 Like
So have the trees swap when the abilities are swapped. It isn’t rocket science.
1 Like
Welp, guess I misspoke, but that’s not what I meant
Do they though?
Can’t change covenants but you can change gender at the barbershop.
Pretty sure the lore doesn’t support changing your gender at a barbershop.
Pretty sure it does. MAGICC
“WoW, the land of make believe” 
Citation needed
What is this madness???
1 Like
You want to destroy Covenants’ culture and political standings AND their beliefs just so you can squeeze out a little more numbers to fondle.
Mostly, I’d just like the abilities to not have a noticeable delta between them because when you put DPS vs DPS, there is no choice. Only numbers. If the DPS is even, we can actually choose. They can keep everything else.
But if they won’t do that I want flexibility to pick between them. Doesn’t have to be as frequently as every fight. Maybe once a week. We’re gonna have this for 2 years. Needs flexibility so when all you guys who are soooOo hyped about it before you get your hands on it die off and quit, and the rest of us are still here stuck with it… we actually get to enjoy them after the first couple weeks
1 Like
That’s not what an RPG is about at all. An RPG is about progressing your character to get better at all the things your character does.
And your character has strengths and weaknesses. You can’t remove the weaknesses because they’re inconvenient.
Yea, only numbers. That’s the problem. If Blizzard bent the knee and something else, like the Legendaries or the spell variance, becomes an issue, then the change was pointless.
The only way numbers are going to be even if you make everything homogenous.
Noticeable delta does not = completely even. It just means as long as they are actually balanced, which is not an outrageous thing to ask. They always want to achieve balance. They have an entire team whose only job is to balance.
Look at this strawpoll,
https://www.strawpoll.me/20539850/r
58% of players polled on Asmongolds channel - a guy who is extremely casual when it comes to min/maxing, whose playerbase cares about transmog and mount farming, has almost 60% of the people on it saying they’re going to pick the one with the best numbers.
That’s not even a min/max or even a raid community showing those results; it’s something people care about and it’s something people have always cared about. Numbers are important in this game. You can’t change that, certainly not with a feature like covenants.
Strengths and weaknesses are already inherent to specs and classes. You are conflating adding MORE strengths and weaknesses with there not being any at all should covenants be balanced. That’s dishonest.
And like, they’ve compromised on every single new expansion, even new patch feature they’ve ever made in the last 3-4 expansions that players found restrictive and complained about it. Casuals were (rightfully) going crazy about essences very recently, they changed it to suit them. It’s not just raiders that care about these things like you guys say by constantly referring to them and just the “tryhards” instead of all the actual demographics that are upset bout them. Covenants have received more complaints than any of them.
Of course they will compromise. The only real question is when, whether it’s 8.1 or 8.2
And that’s there prerogative as a player, does not mean the game’s entirety should be bent around min/maxing, or you get things like WoD.
Asmongold is also not the greatest example.
But what does balance mean to a min/maxer, because they’ve been disparaging all aspects of the game that affect their precious numbers. Even now, there’s still fermentation about faction disparity among top raiding guilds because of Racials.
There’s general balance, and unrealistic balance. I’m couching that you probably linger in between.
That perfectly honest. Factions have their own strengths and weaknesses also, so the very idea of stripping out those negatives and leaving only positives just benefits people artificially with no consequences.
So far… honestly they haven’t. There’s only a couple threads being updated here and it’s pretty much by the same people commenting every time (me included).
I’ve seen way bigger threads over pathfinder and raider IO.
Sure, it’s possible that it will be a much bigger thing when the launch comes, but as long as it isn’t ‘X covenant is better for one activity for every class’, I don’t think you’ll see nearly the amount of complaints that you’re expecting. You won’t see the forums blow up because Venthyr is slightly better than the other covenants for a given boss.
This isn’t true, it’s just all you’ve paid attention to. You have no other reason to care what a min/maxer says unless you’re disagreeing with them.
that’s not what anybody is asking for though. asking for balance is not “stripping negative consequences,” the consequence is inherent with the spec you pick. Classes are the vehicle we chose to play WoW in, Covenants are just another temporary feature than augment that vehicle. As long as classes are the vehicle, there is always a consequence. Nobody is trying to remove that.
Everybody just plays Horde. It’s not because their racials are stronger, because at this point they aren’t. It’s just snowballed to the point where we are now.
Pathfinder and Raider IO are not new expansion or new patch features. When I say new expansion/patch features, I mean things like essences, azerite, legendaries, corruption, etc.
Ain’t that the freakin truth. These people fight tooth and nail for terrible systems and then fade into the shrubbery like Homer once the systems go live.
2 Likes
Also, most min/maxers disliked WoD too apart from two of the raids and the class design. Trust me, the S.E.L.F.I.E CAM patch was not catered towards min/maxers.
Why do people speak in such outrageously broad strokes like this?
This controversy is over player power, chiefly the Covenant and Covenant class abilities, being tied to mutually exclusive choices.
It’s nothing larger than that. If these abilities were available to every Covenant, if the art team re-themed them into unique appearances for each Covenant, the overwhelming majority of hardcore players would be just fine with that.
3 Likes
Yes, it is. Most of the BoP Profession perks were nuked because min/maxers complained. Several expansions later, those BoP perks are finally coming back in a weaker state.
Just like a min/maxer doesn’t care what a casual says unless they’re disagreeing with them.
No, no. That’s only one layer of choice. Blizzard is trying to add a second layer, a small one, and you guys are losing your minds. There can be more than one layer of strengths and weaknesses. You will survive.