The difference is this is how the Worgen came into WoW, its kinda like the Trolls right they got BLASTED pre WoW, that’s what led to their origin into the Horde. The Worgen intro while happening inside WoW is why the Worgen join the Alliance, I too feel they should be very anti-horde (or at least strongly anti forsaken) but the Forsaken blighting Gilneas is the origin story. Gilneas was never a zone beyond your intro.
Teldrasil is very different from that, it was a full zone, it was a hub of activity (well until they quashed that with throwing everything in SW) and after 14 years of running around it with new NE characters or going there as the capital Blizz decided to burn it to the ground.
That’s the difference and why people are obsessed with NE vengeance over Worgen vengeance, you wheren’t an established playable race until Sylvanas came knocking, there’s not attachment to Gilneas or anyone in it.
But I again agree, the Worgen should be pretty hungry for vengeance in game and so far they have been
I disagree with this purely because of what you follow it up with.
I took the liberty of bolding the key word. Worgen weren’t chased out of Gilneas and had their Prince murdered Pre-WoW. That was their opening experience to the game with promises that they would retake Gilneas for the Gilneans. That was their first on screen visual presentation and while it had some good moments in it they weren’t enough to out weigh being refugees from their very start.
Worgen just like Night Elves very much need important on screen visual representation of them either moving forward and forging their own new capital city (I vote for somewhere on Kalimdor), or reclaiming Gilneas.
This I actually do agree with you on, and it sucks that the major reason Blizz hasn’t just given Gilneas back is likely because they don’t want to spend the assets. That Heritage Questline did not help things either. Gilneas and frankly Southern Silverpine and Hillsbrad really should have fallen into the hands of the Alliance at the end of BfA. While its always really bothered me that the Plaguelands and Strat for some reason were never taken by the Forsaken and BEs (at bare minimum for national defense?)
I do disagree however that the Worgen should resettle on Kalimdor. Gilneas is their home, and Genn is not the King of just the Worgen; he is the King of the Gilneans. While all (or most) Alliance Worgen are Gilnean, not all Gilnean are Worgen. They should get their city back, and them being forced to transfer to Kali honestly kind of rings with a bit too much of “The Worgen are to be made convenient for the NEs Racial Fantasy; just as the Draenei and Tauren sometimes are. They aren’t equal in priority of fantasy”.
While I do want to see more union between the Kaldorei, Draenei, and Worgen working together on Kalimdor it’s not my intent for two to be subservient to one. Even if it was just the Kaldorei and the Draenei I would like to see them working in tandem to secure their unified interest in not letting the Horde dominate Kalimdor.
Azuremyst Isle isn’t hidden away. The Draenei, especially those with a bone to pick about the siege of Shattrath, should have a bigger pressence on Kalimdor.
They don’t because the NE culture doesn’t really allow them to, nor have the Draenei themselves really had the numbers to need to expand. Though that may change now with Legion. The NE culture isn’t exactly symbiotic with the very Light and Arcane Tech Heavy culture of the Draenei, which means major instance of Draenei settlement into Kalimdor is likely to spawn tensions. Like it or not, the Draenei do pollute and exploit the natural environment either in the harvest or malfunction of their tech.
That doesn’t even get into the whole Light/Elune tiny landmine that Velen almost stepped on with Tyrande. Honestly, while the Draenei are hospitable enough with the NEs (and indebted to them), its not really surprising they get along better with the Humans than the Elves.
It’s not about expansion it’s about screen time. Her name escapes me but there was a Draenei NPC added to Ashenvale questing in Astranaar before it was ruined (twice) and the first time I came across her I thought it was an amazing way of helping to feel like the Draenei were part of the world they’d crash landed on. I wanted more Draenei for me to get quests from on my adventures through Kalimdor.
The inverse of this however was when they started doing everything they could to start dumping on Night Elves in Cataclysm up until present when in Feralas they had you go on a series of quests to dilute the Sentinels by inducting three worgen into them.
It absolutely is the problem Blizzard created. They’ve gone to great lengths to forge that problem because they have zero understanding of how to breed a healthy rivalry in a two faction system.
Why is it nonsense? It’ s not like the Horde hasn’t perfected the art of ambush tatics against the Alliance back in the wars of the East. Night Elves do not have the lock on forest guerilla tactics. Especially when all of the competent commanders have trucked to Silithus. At the time of the attack for instance, the on duty commander of the Astranaar forces was literally training her squad to exhaustion and that’s the state they were in when the Forsaken caught them with their pants down.
Pffft welcome to the club. Everything interesting about any of the Alliance races is shoved into a human mold or slam dunked in the trash. If players won’t joint the Alliance Blizzard will bring the Alliance to the Horde.
On Topic
As the story progresses I’m getting the distinct feeling that Ardenweald and Maldraxxus are going to be instrumental in resolving the Kaldorei/Forsaken feud. I dunno how exactly, but I have a hunch Kael’thas will play into it somehow.
I think the problem with caveats is it never leaves anyone happy so from a… writers perspective why are they telling that story?
The Night Warrior for example, all they needed to do was NOT raise Delaryn into a Forsaken and have Tyrande beat up on ol’ Nathanos until he flees with his cronies. Just Tyrande powers up, she finds Nathanos stops him from raising the NEs and he turns and runs.
That’s all they needed to do, but they had to toss in Snidely Whiplash being all “Haha Queen of What again?” finishes his mission of raising the NEs and than takes off. So that her “power up” amounted to… what exactly? Horde’s still pissed Tyrande found CoSmIc power and beat undead bow man but at least you’d apease the NE fans that go thwomped through War of Thorns.
But instead Blizz does constant caveat victories so its “you killed Rastakhan in DA! when will you alliance be happy!!” and “He wasnt even a horde leader and anduin just threw away the suicide squad and stopped his attack what was the point of it!? all that was accomplished was making the trolls horde!”
Tyrandes super ultra powerful now be happy! - And she can’t even stop Nathanos WITH Malfurions help INSIDE Darkshore!
There’s a lot I take issue with in your post, but because you’ve endeavored to be fair about it, I’m only going to address this:
This is a literal non argument. Before we knew anything about BFA, we knew two things: Kul’tirans would be Alliance. Zandalari would be Horde. “Rastakhan wasn’t Horde” means nothing because he would be Horde if he had survived. Furthermore? He was the guy who gave us authority in his empire. And because the Alliance killed him, we got deprived of one of the most influential, important troll figures in history to give you your win. Worse? We had to live through the Alliance lens and kill him in the raid.
I don’t disagree we knew what sides the factions would end up on but that is the truth he was the person keeping them from joining the Horde while Tilanji was the facilitator of it. Everyone knew Tilanji was going to end up in charge as Rastakhan had enormous amounts of death flags. He himself was not going to be a Horde character.
BUT that also falls right back into unsatisfactory story telling doesn’t it? I don’t think it was worth it Alliance side as he wasn’t actually a Horde leader and we killed the neutral party keeping the Trolls out of the Horde (and than just… left). You don’t like it because Rastakhan still died at the hands of the Alliance, and probably also because Jania just dips out of the fight.
BFA just a whooole lot of nobody really wins at anything they attempted to do, Horde or Alliance
Rastakhan was leaning Horde long before he died. He gave us authority in his name. Had he survived, there is absolutely no question nor any doubt that he would’ve been a Horde leader.
To be fair, Malfurion has for all practical purposes reached the level of a Wild God, as in Stormrage Ysera notes that Malfurion has surpassed even her. And if anything, Malfurion hand waving back trees to regrow Darkshore’s forests during the warfront to undo the damage the Horde did could very well be a callback to Cenarius himself doing the same back in Ashenvale when he was introduced in Warcraft III.
The quote that Droité is referencing is from A Good War:
Tyrande Whisperwind was planning to remain in Stormwind for weeks to construct a long‐term strategy for dealing with the Horde’s strange movements. She had already left Darnassus. It was the perfect time to strike.
But for some reason, the warchief was hesitating.
“You wanted to launch the attack in three weeks, High Overlord,” she said.
“That was when I believed we needed to handle Tyrande and Malfurion. Now we only need to contain one of them,” he replied. “We’ll have a few less soldiers ready for the fight, but we’ll still outnumber the night elves—eight‐to‐one instead of twelve‐to‐one.”
And a follow up quote from Saurfang analyzing how the fight had gone so far when the Horde stopped to recover in Astranaar:
Malfurion struck hard all across the Horde’s lines, killing those foolish enough to charge into battle with him. When the final numbers were tallied, there would be more slain Horde than kaldorei.
If anything, the fact that Tyrande and Malfurion were both at the Darkshore Warfront punctuates why the Horde lost Darkshore the second time, when without Sylvanas there any more to contend either of them the Horde was bound to get rolled over.
Rather, the greatest complaint about the Night Warrior has always been that it was unnecessary when Tyrande already had all the power to stomp the Horde before even risking the ritual.
Tyrande does more damage to the Horde in that quest-chain before she does the ritual than after. All you do is follow her trail of corpses and then she gets the Night Warrior power up and does absolutely nothing with it.
Which was criminal as all hell. Besides the things she did do as the Night Warrior, she was already capable of as a Priestess. For some reason blizzard decided not show us exactly what the Night Warrior is capable of, instead they just went with Tyrande is bad because she’s absolutely pissed her people were massacred
Its not really, I was throwing the NEs a bone. Outside of maybe the movement of the majority of the standing army south to stop the Horde from getting such a stockpile of Azerite. Which … honestly the Gobs did do wonders with Azerite in a short period, so the Horde having it was not an unwarranted concern.
The problem I’ve always had with the NEs isn’t that they’re formidable, especially in their natural terrain. I absolutely accept that. Especially with their physical prowess and magical aptitude. Its that, largely for cultural reasons, their military is both stagnant and overspecialized … yet that formidable nature is expected to just stay that way into perpetuity. Most of their tech and tactics are same ones they’ve used for 10k years, and most of which were developed in response to (and to combat) the Highbourne and Legion. Not the cultures that comprise the new Horde. So the idea that Horde, which if nothing else have proven themselves HIGHLY adaptive, couldn’t learn to counter these largely unchanging NE tactics is very strange.
welcome to the club. Everything interesting about any of the Alliance races is shoved into a human mold or slam dunked in the trash. If players won’t joint the Alliance Blizzard will bring the Alliance to the Horde.