I am not sure if the Horde really has much of a presence in Ashenvale after Mists besides maybe gathering lumber. After the Fourth War, I think it is safe to assume such privileges are revoked.
Winterspring is more about securing a border. If the primary goal is making sure your people can rebuild and protect itself from any more attacks, building up in a relatively isolated location is a rather bad idea.
No arguments here! I am all for that even if I don’t see it happening, Blizzard turned the Gilnean flag into a darker colored Stormwind flag and have the Gilneans homeless in SW… they want them assimilated I think.
If the Kaldorei were cool with letting the Gilneans build some of their own little cities and villages that would be cool and I’d be happy with that, like a city in the forest type of deal.
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The Kaldorei did specifically grow that tree for them in Darnassus after rescuing them from Gilneas. I can imagine the Harvest Witches and Druids working together to grow a grove for the worgen as a place to live. But that’s me.
That’s true. I am a sucker for the Victorian look of Gilneas so I want to see more Gilnean architecture hahahaha.
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Smile Fair enough friend. Fair enough. 
I assume it can be regrown because it was grown to begin with by Fandral Staghelm and close company. He is peanuts in comparison to Malfurion. If they want to dress it up as an artsy woodsy thing, wood ash is rich with lime and potassium and ideal for growing.
Yes, you don’t get to actually get to play through the victory of the campaign and plant the banner at a destroyed fortification. That is a cinematic failing. If you let me, I’d even talk your ear off about all of BFA’s cinematic shortcomings. They gave Tyrande Grom’s plotline but at no point gave it enough attention to make it look like it was warranted. But, in regards to a meta scale, it’s there.
BFA sucked hardcore and anyone that wants to say anything to the contrary has one heck of a bad foundation to stand on.
Maybe I missed something, but the only time I saw Shandris appear sympathetic to outsiders was to construct a message of “Under my charge, everyone is as important as the last and I don’t play favorites”. I can’t think of anything heinous they might had done to her character, but, I wouldn’t be shocked if it happened, given that they’ve done it to a wide host of characters already. (Lilian, Garona, Rexxar, Saurfang, etc.).
Fair for Malfurion, I suppose. I can’t think of any time Tyrande’s shown as grossly incompetent.
That’s different. Sylvanas doesn’t tell the Forsaken’s story anymore, just the antagonist’s. She might as well not exist in comparison. Tyrande is still an effective engine for driving the Night Elf story.
One of the points I wanted to make with that claim was that in the event that someone’s going to eat a villain bat (and the Night Elves most assuredly never will, because that’s dangerous marketing) and they need an antagonist, or they need someone to die for shock factor (again, they’re not going to be taking risks with the Night Elves after they so extremely flubbed the Night Elf story), they have more characters to still tell the story after the character’s departure.
WoW tells its story through prominent characters, not individuals, so, everything revolves around them and they’re the lens of how we see it.
While a fundamentally flawed system, it in theory shouldn’t be problematic. But it is actually a problem, because the Forsaken’s story is effectively over. There is nobody left to tell their story. Calia is not Forsaken, she is an Alliance story character, and Lilian Voss, while her life does reflect the hardship of the Forsaken, is thoroughly a neutral character and isn’t apart of the Forsaken body.
It is becoming an exceedingly bigger problem for the Horde sub-stories, like the Troll story, the Tauren story, especially the Orc story (with only Thrall left) and Alliance sub-stories, like the Gnome story.
I will give you that they didn’t really give anyone much to play with when it came to actual gameplay and cinematic focus, but, in the meta (more like handwave) they have. They won Darkshore, on a land invasion. The sort of thing that is highly lethal and usually requires a massive force to reliably overcome the defenses. The only thing that’s more lethal than it is a fortress assault, and they ousted the Bilgewater Cartel and the Forsaken stationed there, with Horde auxiliary.
I mean, I get it, I do. The Horde doesn’t actually to get to play through any of its victories (like, supposedly the Alliance was kicked out of the Barrens and there was some major victories in Kul Tiras, but we only see them in the mission table) and those that were apart of the storytelling experience were heinous war crimes that might as well hadn’t been gameplay at all, given how so little choice you had over it and how it exists for no other reason than to waggle the finger at the Horde player and say; “How dare you do this atrocity, Horde player, you should feel bad about us taking your faction for a joyride to do dumb bullflannel”. It isn’t until the end of the expansion that we’re told through the epilogue that the Alliance had suffered such extreme casualties that they weren’t in a position to claim victory.
BFA was in every regards a disaster and that we wasted precious CGI time on out-of-character Saurfang will forever be egregious to me.
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Yes it is, because you know very well that the expectation is that the NEs (for no real discernable reason) be portrayed as more powerful than the entire Horde combined. Into perpetuity and by a wide margin. Even though there is nothing even in the WotA that would suggest they are so inconceivably strong they get to indefinitely invalidate every other race’s racial strengths…
Like, did anyone ask themselves exactly how NE civilians were capable of holding the line against 8 to 1 odds, when so much prepwork was put in to catching them with their pants down? You can certainly get mad that they were caught with their pants down, that’s a fair argument to make … but even in WC3 the NEs were only portrayed as “Formidable, but not Overwhelming” unless a Wild God got involved.
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For the Night Elves I agree that they need to have visible victories without caveats. Specifically a campaign to resettle and secure Ashenvale would work wonders for their story and identity.
The Forsaken are a bit trickier to work on because what they need first and for most is what they have always needed, some new characters in the spotlight. Calia can be useful in helping to build up other characters in the Forsaken’s roster but I don’t think she fits well as a leader for the faction. One type of character the Forsaken badly need is someone who can exemplify what being an udead character who enjoys being an undead character is.
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how managed the warhammer elves it? How managed the middleearth -elves such things ?
PS: Sorry, quote the wrong part. I mean that one^^
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Not when she’s never once been shown interacting with any of them. The only character that even represents the ideals of Forsaken Free Will or the Forsaken experience that Calia is shown in the presence of (or even mentioning) is Lilian Voss. Who, as much as I love her, she’s equally forced into her current role too. Outside of Voss though? Its Faol and exclusively the very recently undead Alliance characters like Derek and the NEs. Characters who are being molded to be convenient for her, but none of which have even been “Forsaken”. They all have lives they could go back to if they wanted to.
Calia Menethil ironically in her current iteration literally invalidates the Forsaken’s entire history since they’ve become Forsaken; including their entire history with the Horde. Solely for “Divine Right to Rule” nonsense of a woman who abandoned them all for 18 years to hide away in self-exile.
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Warhammer Elves? No idea, I have no knowledge on them specifically. Middle Earth Elves? Largely by them being the most advanced magical civilization on Middle Earth until around the time they left. And the latter group I’m not sure you want the NEs emulating considering their whole thing was “decline and vanish into the west”. Arbitrary strength is arbitrary, and in a setting like WoW … for the NEs to maintain their deep cultural military stagnation and their “overwhelming arbitrary strength” it requires Blizz to put glass ceilings on every other race. Since the NEs can’t change, and the NEs cant ever lose their edge, that means restricting everyone else. Races who’s fantasies aren’t as mired in “Returning to or Maintaining the Status Quo” and depend more on forward momentum must be hamstrung to some extent.
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I agree that she hasn’t been shown to interact with any other Forsaken characters. But I disagree that she can’t help to develop other Forsaken characters. For an example, she could interact with a Forsaken military commander who disagrees with her about what to do next. That disagreement could be used to further build up the commander by having his/her more pragmatic approach be correct and effective as well as developing this military commanders prominence in the story.
No, that’s not really what I want to say 
and with the elves it wasn’t just magic, there was more to it, but anyway^^
I meant more: it’s a general theme that exists across settings, powerful elves.
Forsaken should have never been a playable race.
You’re kidding yourself that Calia is not going to be portrayed as overwhelmingly in the right in such an exchange; and frankly its so bad right now that I’m genuinely afraid Blizz will villain bat what’s left of the Forsaken Old guard because they don’t mesh with Menethil.
The only way to make Calia work is to embrace the dual-identity of the Forsaken lightly explored in BtS, and build Voss into her equal and counterbalance. With Calia representing who the Forsaken were in life (the Citizens of Lordaeron) and Voss representing who they’ve become since death (the Forsaken). Twin Pillars for a people who have Twin Identities, and a massive spectrum in between. Neither the Forsaken Identity or the Citizens of Lordaeron Identity is inherently negative, its just the prior was manipulated by Sylvanas. If you need a Calia Forsaken leader, you need an appropriate counterbalance that the Old Guard Forsaken reps can get behind. And atm, the best shot at that sort of character is Voss; and she’s being presented as merely a “steward of Gondor”. Gods that’s thematically depressing.
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I kid myself all the time and I am fully prepared and expect to be proven wrong. But I stand by what I said. The Forsaken need more characters and if Calia is used correctly additional characters can be built up.
This could work as well.
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This is a fake narrative that you and Treng have made up. This idea doesn’t exist in any of the Night Elf circles I frequent, which is several, and other than a few obvious troll posters has never been positioned as a serious demand by any Night Elf fan on these forums. Drop it already and make your claims on something that’s not a lie for once.
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OK … then what is your expectation then?
Because quite frankly, outside of the nonsense of them being caught blindsided there was nothing really nerfing the NEs in the WoT. A civilian police force that was ambushed to such extremes holding off 8 to 1 odds is kind of absurd. There is no real reason given on HOW they are able to do that, beyond the fact they can. While the Horde was forced to (in a dozen ways) do the one thing they know they aren’t supposed to do when facing down the NEs … fight them on their terms. While being forcibly regressed back to BC era tech and tactics. To the point where we weren’t allowed even a single zepplin, let alone ship/airship in our apparent attempts to invade a god damned Skyscraper Sized Tree on an Island in a Sea!
So, no, its really not a “fake narrative” when NE posters continue to complain that Blizz nerfed them so heavily in the WoT. Or how they demand some clean win against the Horde. They are clearly expecting Blizz to provide such a devastating victory to reassert that power fantasy. Either in the form of Tyyrande being allowed to just rampage her way through everyone and everything as the Night Warrior … or just Elune herself going nuke on the Horde from Orbit.
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This is also a fake narrative. Unless you can provide the quote that makes this claim. It used to be “7 to 1” and now lately it’s suddenly become “8 to 1”.
That was wildly inconsistent. They couldn’t bring their catapults anywhere near the shore to take out the ships because of glaive throwers because of range limitations until all of a sudden they could. And then all of a sudden they could go from the shore to Teldrassil.
This is your assertion and nothing more.
This is more fake narrative to try and paint Nelf Fans as being unreasonable in order to dismiss any possible resolution because frankly you’re only concerned with your enjoyment and don’t care what the cost is to the other side.
Why the hell did the Horde even need catapults?
We’ve had siege equipment that can bridge that distance for ages! Why the hell where we fighting the NEs with BC era Gyrocopters and a tiny handful of Cata Era Shredders? Why would we even need to go through Ashenvale and Darkshore if the objective is the seige and hold hostage Teldrassil? I get that the Horde navy lost a lot of itself during Legion, but ALL of it?! To the point where the only ships we had to invade Teldrassil with, were a handful of ones we somehow stole from the Kaldorei?
What nonsense is this? How in the world were we supposed to actually invade Teld, with no mean to actually get onto (let alone into) Teld? Its almost as if Blizz didn’t want to deal with the questions of what would happen if WoD Era Horde naval vessels clashed with NE troop transports or something?
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