Congratulations, you've made raids even more irrelevant in S4

[Brewa-hyjal]

@Bailbean-stormreaver

Because it’s fun and challenging.

Which has always been the point. The problem is what’s happened since M+ was introduced.

1. Emerald Nightmare was a cakewalk because everybody spammed M+ and outgeared it before even setting foot in the raid.
2. Blizzard overcompensated by tuning Nighthold on the assumption that EVERYBODY was already geared up from Mythic+.
3. Blizzard has kept that design model ever since.
4. Therefore, if you DON’T do Mythic+, the raid is massively overtuned for your ilvl.
5. Raiders MUST do Mythic+, just to be geared in order TO raid. Most of the effort that goes into raiding is now from stuff you have to do outside of raid. It’s dumb.

[Teksuo-grizzly-hills]

there’s gotta be some raiders that appreciate m+.

raiding is like 2 sessions a week… i wouldnt be satisfied just raid logging. not enough.

[Terranox-stonemaul (Terranox)]

Yes because raiders feel compelled to do stuff like this they taper the content and stuff like lfr release schedule. It’s always designing with raiders first in mind.

Like conduit energy was designed so raiders wouldn’t change up the build every pull. But now they are embracing that. Raiders feel compelled to do pvp, they nerf pvp gear ilvl. Etc.

[Brewa-hyjal]

@Terranox-stonemaul

Yes because raiders feel compelled to do stuff like this they taper the content and stuff like lfr release schedule.

No raider gives a damn about the LFR release schedule. LFR is in stages for the benefit of LFR players, to mimic a sense of progression, just like Blizzard laid out in their “water cooler” blog on the subject, years ago.

@Terranox-stonemaul

Like conduit energy was designed so raiders wouldn’t change up the build every pull.

And raiders ABSOLUTELY HATED THE IDEA. The cheerleaders for conduit energy were the “casuals” on General Discussion, and the only reason they loved conduit energy WAS BECAUSE RAIDERS HATED IT.

[Debbyfrowner-thrall]

@Allolria-khazgoroth

Content that is as easy as M+ is should not award uncapped valour. It shouldn’t be spammable 24x7, and it should be much more difficult (including not awarding inflated ilvl vault loot for failing to time a run).

You realize how much time it takes to farm valor?

[Brewa-hyjal]

Very little time. Whether doing appropriate keys or just farming +2’s on Tuesdays.

[Terranox-stonemaul (Terranox)]

@Brewa-hyjal

@Terranox-stonemaul

Yes because raiders feel compelled to do stuff like this they taper the content and stuff like lfr release schedule.

No raider gives a damn about the LFR release schedule. LFR is in stages for the benefit of LFR players, to mimic a sense of progression, just like Blizzard laid out in their “water cooler” blog on the subject, years ago.

You can see this reflected in some QAs in past blizzcons. Raiders felt compelled to do lfr so blizzard staggered the release schedules. And nerfed ilvls for example, took out tier sets in stuff like WoD. Nerfed pvp item levels because pvers/raiders felt compelled to pvp for gear. The complaint of stuff like titanforging from world content. A whole bunch of stuff was changed to satisfy them and other top end player content that hurt other parts of the game.

[Brewa-hyjal]

@Terranox-stonemaul

Raiders felt compelled to do lfr

Then they’d remove Normal, too. But they didn’t.

[Abendroth-zuljin (Abendroth)]

Season is shorter than the previous ones, wouldn’t have made sense to keep the cap like the previous one. Good trinkets and flux to get from raid anyway, why not do it.

[Echab-zuljin]

At this point I have to ask…what is the reason for keeping the raid lockout? If I clear the raid and only get one item drop for the entire event, why do I have to wait until next week to try again? If we can spam the same dungeons over and over, why can’t we do the same with raids?

[Birds-stormrage]

@Allolria-khazgoroth

Why bother killing mythic raid bosses for loot when you can just fail to time 15’s to get a choice of 3 mythic raid ilvl items?

Maybe because 5-6 of my bis pieces come from the last 3 bosses?

[Abendroth-zuljin (Abendroth)]

The raid on farm is MUCH shorter to clear than the number of dungeons you’d need to do for the same amount of gear.

And you can’t choose your dungeon.

Also mythic raid having a higher ilvl than what you can get from even vault and that’s only 1 item per week for m+.

[Féyrre-wyrmrest-accord]

Cries in PvP main

[Brewa-hyjal]

@Birds-stormrage

@Allolria-khazgoroth

Why bother killing mythic raid bosses for loot when you can just fail to time 15’s to get a choice of 3 mythic raid ilvl items?

Maybe because 5-6 of my bis pieces come from the last 3 bosses?

Problem is, you don’t have those during progression, and after progression it’s kind of pointless.

[Brewa-hyjal]

@Abendroth-zuljin

The raid on farm is MUCH shorter to clear than the number of dungeons you’d need to do for the same amount of gear.

And you can’t choose your dungeon.

Also mythic raid having a higher ilvl than what you can get from even vault and that’s only 1 item per week for m+.

Do you know how long it takes 80% of cutting edge guilds to get the raid on farm?

[Abendroth-zuljin (Abendroth)]

Don’t need a full farm. You could just kill say, the first few easy ones and be in full 304 very quickly. Since no lockout, kill 1-2-3 whatever, go out, reset.

M+ still has to wait every week for a 304.

[Brewa-hyjal]

@Abendroth-zuljin

Don’t need a full farm. You could just kill say, the first few easy ones and be in full 304 very quickly.

You have a ridiculously inflated idea of how much gear drops in raids.

[Abendroth-zuljin (Abendroth)]

It doesn’t matter, it would still be more than m+ locked at one item a week if raid had its lockout removed.

[Malgorok-zuljin]

I mean, raids have the best trinkets

So get farming

[Shalemara-moon-guard]

Forget all this noise, even if they make raids drop exponentially better gear than Mythic+ it still won’t get me into raiding ever again. I hate the idea of spending 4hrs of my day stuck playing simon says with some leads doing callouts. Spending 3 of those hours running back to the boss, clearing trash, and sitting in front of boss discussing strategy. 1hr actually fighting the boss. Mythic+ is the best thing that ever happened to this game.