Congratulations on destroying raiding!

So sick of entitled raiders thinking the whole game revolves around them.

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If you like raids, raid. Elite players always act like it’s not about the gear, so don’t worry about the gear. Do it for the challenge! Do it for the being forced to play a particular spec you may or may not enjoy! Do it for having to show up at specific times like it’s a dentist appointment multiple times every week!

Yes, raid for the fun!

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I’m not an elite player. I clear the raid once on heroic for fun and story and to get aotc. I go back every week for the loot.

Failing a key means you weren’t good enough to beat the timer, which is the foundation of m+. But don’t worry, even if you’re not good enough to time a high key, you’ll still be awarded better than heroic ilvl loot from the gv as a participation trophy!

Literally not what failure means but ok.

I suppose you expect 100% winrate in ladder based PvP as well?

Have any data to back up M+ popularity? How did you arrive to this conclusion?

There. The change is here.
1 Nathria Run = 2 hours = 20 pieces of loot.
That’s 1 item per every 6 minutes.

M+ is still 1 piece per 30m timed run, unless you’re good /w good team, then its 1 piece of loot per every 15 minutes averaged.
Hope raiders can stop crying now that their ez life is now ezier.

If you’re asking for back up data and disagreeing with him, do you have data to disprove him?

Because there is no data to disprove it otherwise. M+ is popular even on a pug scene, let alone guild runs, M+ communities.

Rubbish and misleading. The only important thing is the chance for a person to get loot.

The rate at which you can get loot is now the same as you get for FAILING a m+ key. Before this change it was even less.

Except you can spam M+ keys 24/7, whereas the raid is on a weekly lockout.
M+ also rewards you (still) with a higher ilvl piece from the GV for failing.

All they have done is brought the loot rate up to the same as m+ failure. It’s not enough, and still ensures M+ remains the easier and superior gearing method.

Of course it’s popular. It’s the best gearing system, it’s getting buffed in 9.0.5, it rewards failure with participation trophy loot, it’s spammable 24/7 and it’s far easier in all but the highest keys than raiding.

This thread aged like milk :milk_glass:

Anecdotal at best.

you’re welcome for the 69th like

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Noice :fox_face: :octopus:

Yea - cause guilds are NEVER progressing… and every raid they touch = 2 hour clears… you are freaking delusional!

While you can certainly make the argument that M+ doesn’t hold up to how PvP’ers can gear, neither does the initial gearing of raiders to PvP’ers which is why for the 1st 2 to 3 weeks solid top raiders were in full 226 PvP gear.

Blizzard can not separate PvP from PvE ever, because it’s so toxic, so imbalanced, and so “gimmicky” - PvP can not and will not ever be able to stand on its own two feet in WoW.


wrong again + u can get the gear from rbgs too

No you cannot get gear from RBG’s, you can get honor, conquest and rating.

While it indirectly relates to gear, if you can’t get past the Rating specified the gear will always stay at 200 item level and like more than 85% of the player base. who’s still hardstuck at 1400 this proves to work. and the whole “its un fair” senario is based of pointless complaining

And also most of the PVE players buy their way through boosting, which is also against the TOS. Since, as said, they are too bad to pass 1400 rating mark

wrong again any gear u get from rated pvp is all the same u can buy the gear from it with conquest and u can upgrade to whatever the heck 226
should be the same for valor and m+
since valor + conquest are both capped anyhows

Would without doubt say that you 100% were one of those Pve players. and no, it’s not wrong lmao, you cannot get 226 item level unless you get 2100 rating, which is less than 10% of the current active playerbase.

The valor system also is designed to work the same, where as if you cannot complete a +10 key in all dungeons it won’t let u upgrade past 216 and if u can’t do them all in a +15 key, you can’t upgrade past 220.

They also multiple times has said that it should never go above raiding (which from any logical view point is accurate)

Also PVP gear is trash in PVE unless ur a class like a demon hunter that benefits of it, which is super rare.

The stats proves me right with people being hardstuck, and they just yell “unfair” because they can’t get to the rating.

It’s super common. It also takes a new character the same amount of time to get to 2400, that it would do for a new player to clear content up to mythic raiding with a clear.

Let’s not forget if you do a 15+ key you get 226(even if you don’t time it), while in pvp if u can’t get past 1400 rating (like 85% of the players) the item will stay at 200 item level.

once again you are wrong lol

Not being able to come with anything constructive is admitting defeat, good one

Failing a key has no reward except a lower key than the one you just failed.

Clearing a key and missing the timer isn’t failing the key, it’s failing the timer.

Go ahead and put timed restrictions on raid bosses that offer double loot for beating them, then tell people looting the boss’s corpse that they failed the raid. That’s basically what you are doing here.

Protip: if you aren’t failing the timer on at least some of your keys, you need to run harder keys, because you are not at the level that your skill and/or gear is equipped for. If you only run keys you are sure you will make the timer, that’s the equivalent of pushing rating in any ladder based game and refusing to play opponents that match your MMR.

No. The whole point of m+ is to time it. If you fail to time it, you have failed and you should not be rewarded with mythic raid loot from the gv for failing.