Except even after all those nerfs limit struggled at an unreal level to down her. Even when they did down her they had all of 2 people alive with their 3 healer strat.
The nerfs didn’t give anyone a win, the strats decided on by each team did. Limit picked the wrong strat period.
Even before the nerf limit was only getting past that phase due to triple healer and hero. Then they were immediately dying right after because it took all they had to actually push past it.
Without any of those nerfs we’d still be watching the race except I’d wager most of limits roster would be back at work instead of the race.
in the end it really doesn’t matter and no amount of protesting will change anything Blizzard stacked the deck in favor of method with their own actions
they might as well just change the annual arena competitions and just have method simply walk out on stage hand them the trophy and declare them the champions save everyone the time and trouble
as ive stated already its not the fact they won its the manner in how they won if limit had pulled off this victory under the same conditions myself as well as other people would still protest the results it clearly reeks of underhandedness in this one instance
Instead of going to bed and hitting it fresh like method they decided to waste valuable sleep time to try and brute force their way to the win. I was there in my chair watching them make this dumb decision all night and even I was exhausted watching them make constant mistakes and no progress because their raiders were dead tired.
This had nothing to do with Blizzard tinfoil hat conspiracy’s. This had everything to do with their decision making that cost them the race. I dunno why people think it’s strange as they literally did it on a recent previous race.
They were in the lead like they sometimes are and when reset rolled around they extended the lockout to try and steal the kill with their extra time. Then reset rolled around for EU and method decided to do a full reclear and the gear they obtained allowed them to push past and take the win.
They’ve made the same bad decision making twice in a single expansion and all people can do is blame blizzard when it’s actually just them screwing themselves over.
no its baffling as to how anyone would defend this kind of one sided issue
if the roles were reversed and limit did it first youd be demanding their achievement revoked and rightfully so
as ive said several times this isn’t about who won its the manner in how it happened due to the timing of the nerf being added on Blizzards part which strangely coincided with the fact method was behind and limit was on the verge of winning
If that’s the case, neither guild needed the nerf. So why make it?
By your own account, Method was “dying to mechanical errors” when the nerf occurred. The nerf would then mean that they never had to perfect their execution on the phase the way Limit did. In other words, the nerf definitely helped Method more than it helped Limit - since, again, it was to a phase that Limit had already beaten.
Even if one thought pull count were a valid measure, by your own count, most of that difference was the difference between Limit spending 200+ pulls on phase 3 and Method only spending 50, when it got nerfed and all that hard work became moot.
Limit was literally dying right after the phase push each time. That part was extremely absurd and the spear doing arcane damage was just globaling people.
We aren’t in the vanilla days where it can take them a month to decide to fix something. They clearly seen an issue and fixed it but didn’t make it pointless.
Just because limit was brute forcing it doesn’t mean it was fine.
Because they were literally 50 pulls in and didn’t have the practice down to a science. Limit was over 200 pulls in by the time method started that part.
The change to add time actually helped limit more because they were running triple healer and less overall dps because they were missing a dps compared to methods strat.
The hard work didn’t become moot. Limit was executing that phase flawlessly pre nerf and still being melted right after because they had to use everything to survive its absurd damage.
But people will believe whatever they want. A multi billion dollar company is clearly in methods pocket.
/rolls eyes.
Blizzard doesn’t change things to mess with the outcome of the world first race. The community is the driving force behind world first. If Blizzard cared at all the race would start global. But instead Eu is roughly an entire day behind and NA gets to be the beta testers for things QA didn’t get right.
Life is not fair or perfect.
But this conspiracy nonsense has to stop at some point.
Do you think the Asian guilds think its fair that by the time they get to start the race it’s already halfway over for the majority of the world?
The nerfs gave Method a massive advantage because instead of having to lust and gain more stacks in phase 2 they could drop a healer and cheese Phase 2. So going into Phase 3 all they had to do was perform clean, drop stacks then burn into phase 4.
I feel bad for Pieces honestly who had a Enhancement shaman strat nerfed at the last moment so they were super screwed with a comp that no longer worked.
Limit got the shaft by setting up for a 3 heal strat in a fight where they knew damage would be heavy in Phase due to the number of stacks you would have but that nerfed SUPER SCREWED Limit.
As soon as the nerf was done for no reason Blizzard gave the race to Method.
so your saying theyd never acquiescence to a person or group based on popularity?
hmm does the incident involving swifty a few years back come to mind?
this guy was solely responsible for inciting a incident that crashed not one but two Blizzard servers and when they banned him for life his followers threatened even more crashes and within 24hrs Blizzard backed down by claiming they overreacted and after an investigation which oddly included a closed door meeting with swiftys sponser Razer gaming devices who by coincidence made mice for WoW and overturned the ban
so don’t think for a moment that Blizzard is above being influenced by popularity of certain groups when it suits them
I do not think Blizzard is in Methods pocket but if I were going to pick one single nerf that would have made their comp even possible in that fight it would be extending out Phase 3 so they could drop stacks going into phase 4 to cheese the heal check.
As soon as Limit proved you could drop the adds in 2 min no nerf should have been done.
Except if you were watching both streams method had already decided ont he 2 healer strat before those nerfs even went live. They committed to the strat they thought was right and limit did the same.
Limits strat was wrong, period.
I never got to watch pieces stream so I can’t comment on this.
And they had a days warning that it would be changing and decided to keep doing 3 healer. They chose not to change it up and the 3 healer strat was pointless as it was very clearly demonstrated that the fight could be healed by 2 people with skill.
Even when looking at both kills it’s clear having 3 healers made no impact when Limit just barley downed her mid wipe. Had they not been stubborn and fixed their comp and actually went to bed on the final night over doing a repeat of G’huun they probably would’ve won.
Their fire mage dps was bonkers, they needed to drop a healer and change up their lust strat and ditch the one dude who caused many of their low % wipes and they could’ve taken it.
You mean the one where the servers were crashed on accident? yeah, I remember that.
At no point did he tell people to crash them on purpose. They should’ve had limiter sin place if their servers couldn’t handle population.
The ban was overturned because it should’ve been. You can’t blame a popular guy for thousands of peoples actions. I remember watching that stream and he was just enjoying himself and doing a big community event.
Had he told people to do it on purpose they had a perfectly valid reason to perma ban him. But he never said or did anything that could be considered ill intent.
I have no comment on this as I don’t dabble in conspiracy theories. I wasn’t in that closed door meeting so I won’t speculate on what was or wasn’t said.
Except right after those two minutes they were just dying outright and wiping. The damage during that phase was nuts and limit started doing the same exact wait strat after.
So I don’t believe that was an issue and they had the extra healing to help prolong it.
Ultimately their comp and bad decision making was their downfall. I honestly believe they would’ve won had they just went to bed and pushed in the morning before method was even up.
And Method was dying well before the phase change. So don’t do the nerf, let the guilds gear up for another week or two, and see who actually wins. For all we know, Limit might have won without Method ever making it through the phase change.
And subscribers are now falling, when they were rising in Vanilla. Sounds like waiting on nerfs is the right strategy.
Increasing an enrage timer that people are making by 50% essentially eliminates it, so yes, it made it pointless.
And yet, Limit was the guild that was already making it through the phase. Quite possibly they were making it through because they had a lot more healing to cover up for the execution mistakes Method was making, and from a practical standpoint, Method’s strategy would never have worked. But we’ll never know, thanks to the nerf that gave Method the phase for free.
As I posted in another thread, I don’t think it’s likely that Blizzard was intending to help Method. I do think it’s likely that Limit felt their strategy was working and didn’t ask for a nerf - we know they didn’t want the nerf at the time - while Method was providing feedback to Blizzard on what they thought would make the raid “better”, which involved the things that were difficult for Method, and not necessarily the things that were difficult for other guilds.
In another other thread, I pointed out ways of making the race start simultaneous. But hey, just not making nerfs and letting the race run for a couple of months would make a day’s head start a lot less consequential, so that would be a good solution too.
Most of if not all of limits raiders all have jobs and nobody in the US gets that much free time to world first race. Method can sustain longer periods of no work and plenty of their members are full time streamers.
I want a race and not a battle of time off attrition.
A new game from 15 years ago isn’t the same now.
The game came in the height of mmo popularity and blew up 4 years later. Then mobas and various other genres became popular along with free to play and we got what we got now.
It’s an unrealistic expectations that a game as old as this can maintain 10+ millions subs like it had a decade ago for a couple of years.
MMO is a dying genre. The next generation is raised on free to play, mobas and BR shooters.
Whatever you need to tell yourself to cope.
And dying right after. I dunno why you keep glossing over this fact. They get through after using every single cd known to man and die right after. The change allowed them to steady out and drop their stacks without being blown up because they had to meet a very tight window.
but having 3 healers doesn’t help with the main mistakes in that phase that pretty much one shot. No amount of healers can save you from a one shot and that’s what method was originally dying to before they got the practice in and started doing the mechanics right.
The spear change made it better for both as if you had too many stacks you’d just flat out die and the attempt would be done. You couldn’t afford ot lose people during that phase as you needed your rezzes for later after the damage buff depletes and kills the person it was cast on.
I won’t be responding further to the thread as I’ve said all I needed to say. But I will add this again as I believe it was the main reason they lost the race.
Their decision to stay up way past their play time in an attempt to pull out the win while method slept was a bad one. They were all fatigued and making little to no progress and ended up sleeping hours past their usual raid time.
Just like the last race they were in the lead and tossed it away when they extended their lockout over a full clear. They blew a 17 hour lead by wiping on the same boss they wiped on the previous week with very minimal upgrades from mythic+ cache.
They had the lead on Azshara even after the nerfs and continued to be stubborn on the strat they thought was the winning one. It simply wasn’t the winning strat and their refusal to change it up decided the race for them.
They didn’t overcome it because they were constantly dying right after because the phase was too hard on them even with 3 healers.
Did you just not watch their stream at all? Because I did and I seen the toll it took on them as they would wipe regardless right after the phase ended.
Method didn’t even take the pull lead until the night before the final day. Limit had all the time to fix it up and take the win.
They didn’t.
Instead they decided to stay up another 5-6 hours and have even worse pulls instead of getting rest and pulling out the win the next morning.
Please stop trying to shift blame away from them as they’re the sole reason they lost the race.
I wanted them to win it badly but they ended up hanging themselves with their own lead again.
They always do this, they have to fix the tuning. The world firsts are basically like the raid testers for blizzard. You must be new to this to think that nerfs never happen on mythic bosses during progression.
I’m not glossing over it; in fact, I keep pointing out that waiting for a reset would get them more gear. I didn’t specify that the extra gear would have allowed them to do the fight while burning fewer cooldowns, eventually addressing the “die right after” issue because I thought that was obvious, but maybe it’s not as obvious as I thought, so I’m saying it now. Gear heals all wounds.
Meanwhile, you keep glossing over the fact that Method never came close to getting through the phase at all before the massive nerf.