I cant help but wonder if limit was having this issue would Blizzard still have applied the nerf?
obviously of course they’ll deny such a thing but it doesn’t change the fact limit had zero problems with the very thing that method couldn’t overcome until after Blizzard applied the nerf
We don’t have to wonder, since Limit was having that issue for days before they got through it. The real question is, if Limit had complained, er, “made a suggestion for improvement through a nerf suited to their strategy”, would Blizzard have implemented it.
Personally, I think listening only to the people who complain is a bad approach, but unfortunately it’s the approach that Blizzard usually seems to take.
I can pretty much just copy paste my reply from another one of your posts…
But it was a hindrance to Limit. To meet the 2 min add enrage timer they had to take too many stacks of the health debuff which was what caused them to wipe in P4 every time… Limit could not win that way, they needed the nerf just as much as Method.
Also the nerf came through at the end of the day for Method. Limit spent all night pulling post nerf while Method slept.
Limit was having an issue…
I feel like you were watching some kind of AU Limit stream
don’t get me wrong if limit had won the worlds first in the same manner my opinion would be the same that Blizzards nerf being applied would’ve caused the same end result leaving method in second place
the point is Blizzard picked a bad moment to fix an issue that clearly wasn’t broken since limit had no difficulty passing it while method was still having a problem with it
this was not some random bug or glitch preventing method from beating it since clearly limit had already done so and as such Blizz basically snatched the chance away from limit and gave method an unfair advantage which they were quick to capitalize on
if limit had won under the same circumstances believe me I still would protest the matter just as much
Have to give Method credit, they are like a force of nature when it comes to world first mythic raiding. I was really pulling for Limit, I thought they had it with how much further along they had gotten but it wasn’t meant to be.
The biggest issue I recognized during prog was during the 3rd and last phase. People were making mistakes with bad placements on the Cursed Heart pools and Eye beam deaths. As well as constant 1 shots in Phase 3. And on top of that lusting Phase 2 instead of final phase. But once they practiced it they were locked into it. What it boiled down to was Method having a superior setup and strat. Not saying that Limits was a bad one, but it came just short of Methods.
And look… a blue post… because who has time to address PvP problems like enhancement shaman specs which are terrible because they have been neglected and how unholy dk and resto druida are ruining arena and all the trinkets from pve allowed in PvP and I could go on and on BUT YOU WOUlD KNOW IF YOU PAID ANY ATTENTION… and gave us something to work with. Yeh but we have time to complement a guild for clearing some pve content… like that’s going to help anyone have a better time playing this atrocity of PvP season…
not to worry im sure if method starts losing too many arena matches they’ll simply blame it on something being too hard and Blizzard will apply a nerf during their match to correct the issue
Limit pushed into phase 4 even with the 2min prior to the nerf and were working on cleaning up their tactics.
Method hit a concrete wall that Blizzard busted down for them to make their strat work.
yeah and you notice it was the same issue limit ran into however they managed to overcome it without needing the nerf yet method couldn’t get past it until Blizzard stepped in
Ok look, let’s ask Limit what they think - ok?
I was in the stream when they got their kill and some of Limit’s fans tried to start raging about the situation having been unfair. Max, their GL/RL/MT, said - clearly and repeatedly - to stop saying that and that they had been beaten by the better team. Period. That they had been outplayed by Method the entire expansion, and that coming in 2nd was no one’s fault - they got beat.
Yes, they got to P4 before the nerf, and yes Max said “why are they nerfing this boss, why are they nerfing this boss?” after their 3rd trip into P4 but it was obvious as they got deeper into the phase that Method’s having another DPS - and their Lust available - in that phase was making life a lot easier for them. Maybe they could have switched up to a 2-healer composition, maybe not. Method had several off-heal capable DPS in their team comp so it’s possible Limit simply didn’t have the players in the classes with the gear necessary to do it. I don’t know. They stuck with 3, made strat changes as they got deeper into P4, and managed to pull it out as the raid was wiping. It was a great fight, and fun to be on-stream for.
I was pulling hard for Limit to take it. I find them far more engaging and their decision to leave their comms open so we could be part of that experience has made me a Limit fan when looking at the two guilds. The Method/Limit race was as good as Limit could make it, they made the 3-healer decision because for them it was a more reliable way to get there. Method could get it done with 2 and that put them over the top first.
Maybe we should just let it go.
This race is over, and maybe we can be as gracious as Limit has been and acknowledge they simply lost to the better team.
this was not a matter of one team beating another in an evenly matched competition
this situation wasn’t an even match method was struggling with a raid mechanic that limit had already conquered and Blizzard picked that moment to apply a nerf and fix the mechanic which was never broken since as I already said limit was past it
whether accidental or deliberate the fact is Blizzard just happened to pick the exact moment that method was behind and gave them a chance to catch up they basically tripped limit at the finish line and ensured method the victory
regardless of who won the victory this is not a simple case of better dps or strategy it came down to the fact Blizzard should’ve never applied this nerf during the actual run since it would’ve caused the same outcome even if the roles were reversed and limit was behind
honestly whether it was limit or method that had won under this kind of circumstances the players should expect no less than an official explanation as to why this happened
And as said - and have said - I watched the race, a lot, both streams. Yes, Limit got past the P3 wall…barely…and got blown up constantly right as they got into P4. They - having had to burn hard, burn Lust, and carry 7 stacks on a bunch of people - were not going to get deep into P4 any time soon. That extra minute gave them time too, and they went into P4 in much better shape because of it. They still struggled a lot because they had to burn Lust early due to the one less DPS they carried into the team, and who knows if they ever would have gotten into P4 in good enough shape to push through to the end.
I wish they hadn’t made the change for another week to see how it all played out, but at this point I’m going to take Max’s words over anyone else’s as to why they lost and what did or did not cost them the race.
the million dollar question is though would Blizzard have done this in the event limit was behind in the same manner as method?
even if they were it wouldn’t change the fact Blizzards nerf came at just the right moment to benefit method and they should’ve waited until the WF was claimed and or applied it during the usual weekly shutdown
given the unusual circumstances and the timing of them applying it makes this a highly controversial move on their part and as such Blizzard should strongly consider resetting the achievement and invite a team from both sides and run the thing again
let them do it on equal footing with 2 fully rested and ready to go raid groups then no matter the outcome in that one itll be undisputable and without question
Wow, all 12 classes? That is pretty cool…
This is so true is actually sad. I honestly don’t get it when it isn’t hard to keep both PvP and pve groups together. Awful really…
Yeah thats not gonna happen. Beyond you and a few others that are not thinking about the full picture it noone should think inviting them to redo things is ok. Why?
Well lets start with why logistics wont pan out.
These guys don’t play for 2 weeks out of a quarter and make enough money through donations or sponsorships to make a living out of this. So taking another 2 weeks off real life jobs to satsify some level 68 draenei aint happening. These people have lives and have sacrificed family and friends time just to down what only a handful of people will ever even see. Honestly we could go on but i actually think that singular point stops you dead in your tracks. Best they can do is choose the less fishy option of all apply it as they go and we move on.
Why would I trust either of the guilds involved? They’re going to say what’s best for them. To get to the truth, it’s better to evaluate the evidence objectively.
If you don’t know, why are you still bothering to post?
I wasn’t pulling for anybody; Limit and Method are both Horde, and there weren’t any Alliance guilds in the running, really. I don’t think most of the people who still dislike the nerf care who won.
For me, I’m looking at things more from a spectator’s viewpoint. I’m interested in following a world first race that’s interesting and fair.
When one guild manages to get a nerf just in time for them to skip the most difficult phase, though, it’s pointless to follow the race. And that’s bad for the game, irrespective of who wins.
Ditto the previous replies. Great fix job there Bliz. I hope Vegas didn’t take out a line on this “World First.” Forty years ago one could end up in a corn field for what Bliz is alleged to have done in this competition…