I had a thought as I was reading the latest post from “Sylvanas Needs A Support System” Thread. Sylvanas Needs a Support System
I thought about posting it there but this thread has nothing to do with Sylvanas per se, but more to do with canon lore. My question is mostly tied to the Mangas, but it could be tied to any of WoW’s lore based literature. Should we consider two conflicting pieces of “canon” as non canon? What about 2 pieces stating the same thing while a third has conflicting information. The lore can get tricky like that at times, and don’t get me started on dungeon lore. I think there are opportunities to speculate when cdev don’t provide particular details, not just among fans but it also leave cdev wiggle room to go back in fill in the blanks. I don’t consider that a retcon or conflicting.
On the other hand how did we get from point A to point B with zero explanations ever are frustrating at times. Is it a retcon, no, but for some reason the storyline is dropped or pops up out of nowhere with a new outlook with nothing linking us from the past to the current situation, leaving us to fill in the blanks.
I think the standard is, “most recent = canon” given how blizzard loves retcons. Personally I would have a hierarchy. Where the following is considered higher on the canonical totem pole
The games. Warcraft is mainly set in the Games, it is where it all started. I will also include any stuff from the manuals in this, as those were tied to the games. I miss manuals.
A lot of the retcons are just extra context/previously unknown details. Like the Dreadlords having a pre-Legion past and purpose, beyond Nathreza.
Those that aren’t, like the Broken Isles apparently always just chilling there with only one little island artificially raised by Gul’dan, it’s a case of most recent lore wins.
You’re right, I tend to do the same thing but then there’s the jump from A to B without explanations. Did the Forsaken really go from a nation that was built on “Lordaeron is your home” to “Don’t ever mention Lordaeron” or was this a retcon? Are we to fill in the blanks on how we ended up here or is this a retcon?
Then screwy unexplained lore comes to mind ie BfA Rexxar, you would think Jaina tortured and beheaded Misha in front of him yesterday.
Then there’s the lore were I feel like its not a retcon but we’re left to make it make sense. Dar’khan has at least 4 different versions, heck I didn’t even know he was Blood of the Highborne until yesterday. So I’m tracking he was killed by Arthas, Aveena, the PC, and Lor’themar. It reminds me of the Forsaken DK but without the explanation of how he goes from A to B, but now we’re stuck filling in the blanks for cdev.
Next there’s are dungeon lore, although we have gotten some clarity for a few.
Lastly, there’s our trusty in-game character’s version ie the whole of Chronicles and parts of the Manga.
I saw this as a clarification of detail. Didn’t seem like a retcon to me. Sylvanas long maintained that the LANDS of Lordaeron belonged to the Forsaken, but she has for even longer encouraged the Forsaken to cast off the lingering ties of their human lives. It didn’t seem inconsistent to me. From Sylvanas’ perspective the undead were not humans and should not see themselves as humans… but she thought they had a right to the lands they once lived in.
An oxymoronical position to have, but one she held regardless. It’s evident in her leader backstory-short-story as well as Before the Storm.
The games. Warcraft is mainly set in the Games, it is where it all started. I will also include any stuff from the manuals in this, as those were tied to the games. I miss manuals.
I agree to this sort of, maybe excluding the manuals. Some of those printed materials were just made by the promotional team that may not have had much of a grasp on the lore and just wanted to make things sound as exciting as possible. There’s also some half truths and lies by omission involved there too, but that’s mainly thanks to retcons.
Novels, Short Stories etc.
I tend to give this less weight because there are actively more contradictions in the novels than anywhere else. Yes they are intended to be canon but it’s obvious that the writers idea of a character sometimes conflicts with what is seen in game. So it does make sense to rate it lower than in game info but I barely recognize it as canon unless or until it is backed up in game.
Cdev or dev quotes in general
Given they have admitted to outright lying to players at this point, I put no stock in this at all. They can say one thing one minute and be ‘mistaken’ or ‘embellishing’ the next. I hat they have to say is effectively worthless if it does not appear in game.
Half and half? I doubt the “dont ever mention Lordearon” was ever originally planned but there is not enough lore to say that was never the case/a policy implemented by Sylvanas after say Cata/War Crimes.
I assume this was some unused quest/something the devs. forgot to edit out. Honestly I would like to think it is non-canon or Rexxar just heard some rumor about Jaina which was untrue. Heck, would it be so hard to believe Sylvanas would lie/tell half truths to get Rexxar to help her?
Wowpedia says he was “more lich than living being”. Considering he was Scourge I dont think it is too hard to assume he can be ressurected multiple times.
Before Ainhin pops up; yes, we know she is blowing smoke. Not the point.
Which is fine, but know we’re left filling in the blanks for a plot point that makes -387,307.00 sense. On top of that, is this characterization canon or not?
I like this point but it doesn’t work for me. Rexxar is killing swaths of Alliance soldiers by the zone without any proof? It doesn’t sit right with me. It reminds me of when posters would argue no one knew Teldrassil was wiped off the map except Sylvanas.
It was a quote I read from Wowpedia. I will see if it truly ever was mentioned but yeah, even though it is a manga is a pain to reread all that just for one paragraph.
So a quick check says he did not die to Arthas/The explosion of the Sunwell. Arthas apparently saved him and he was living agent of the Scourge during Sunwell Trilogy. He did die at the end of the book(while I mostly skimmed the book I didnt see any reference to him being a lich, maybe the guy who type the wikipedia entry was just being flowerly).
Also, the order seems to be Aveena killed him, then Lo’thermar then the PC. This doesnt seem too off for the Lich King. He would probably raise his subjects as long as they are useful for him.
I assume it more about land ownership rather then keeping the culture of Lordearon.
Being it is never brought up again and Rexxar can be seen happily standing next to Jaina during the Negotiation cinematic. I am going with non-canon.
You’re gonna flip your wig. I’m 100% sure he was killed by Frostmourne. I’m also 100% sure, per Chronicles, he was killed by Aveena. I’ve never read Blood of the Highborne, but Im betting it has Lor’themar killing him as well. And then there’s the in-game version were we bring Sylvanas his head.
Now I’m sure I can think of a way to make all of his fit, but should I? Current lore doesn’t automatically say that those other events didn’t happen.
You are absolutely right. I agree, Sylvanas first major interaction involved her seeing the usefulness in the Forsaken separating themselves from their human identity.
In the same breath she proclaims them to be the rightful heirs to Lordaeron, they rallied around this proclamation.
It wasn’t until BtS that we learned even the word Lordaeron is shunned. Imagine starting a Forsaken toon in vanilla and going this entire time without knowing it’s against the law for them to remember their past. I’m not sure how much Forsaken questing Christie has done but remembering their past is one of their hallmarks. I’m not talking about in a sense were they want to restore their former Kingdom. I’m simply talking about remembering and being reprimanded.
This is more or less what I mean by conflicting lore and then having to decide it’s canoness.
Understood. So do we believe that Rexxar was having a bad day and decided to kill boats loads of Alliance proclaiming that Jaina has gone too far while new lore shows they are all of a sudden BFFs. Ignore the exaggerations just trying to get a point across.
I view Derek Proudmoore situation as a retcon, there’s no reasonable explanation from being turned to ash to having an in tact body. It’s easy for me to go with latest lore in that situation.
Idk what to think about the Jaina-Uther situation.
