Thank you Williams, I was trying to go through the videos I watched yesterday to find it. Ironsides not every site showed the 1.9 change so how many devs on p-servers missed that too when calculating stuff?
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Its easy to miss those mundane details when there are literally hundreds of thousands of them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcKDu2YKMnY
Iâm looking at the buff rows. Heâs missing onyxia buff, dire maul buffs, and maybe a food buff? I think the boot icon might be a +stamina food buff, but I honestly forget what it is. Itâs also possible his DMF buff is a +hp buff.
Heâs also using a crul shurok, which is a decent weapon by all means, but itâs fast for a mainhander and not exactly going to be putting up LARGE numbers like aâŚmisplaced servo arm for instance. or even a deathbringer.
Yes, I think guilds like Nihilium and DnT hadnât âfigured out the gameâ in a sense that they did not 100% minmax like a lot of private server tryhards do.
Take a look at the below for instance. Patchwerk by Curse
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_fT7Vy_tow
Mortal Strike on Patchwerk, Siphon Life on Patch, Corruption, hunters mark, serpent sting, etc. These are super bad for the boss, because those debuffs could be used for a ton of other things that greatly increase raid damage.
I wouldâve commented on your own video, but the debuffs are so small and quality so awful itâs difficult for me to make out what is being used and not being used. I do see corruption, immolation, and rupture being used for sure though.
edit: removed giants/juju strength. didnât see the strength of earth totemâthey donât stack.
This.
This is all we are trying to do. just please, pserver heroes, stop white knighting the pservers. their numbers ARE wrong. we ALL know this as fact and you arguing jsut to try and prove how leet you are is pathetic. There is no âbest classic guild in the worldâ because there is no classic, only pservers. there is no âfastest classic leveler in the worldâ if they leveled on a pserver. there is no confirmed BIS because all those lists are poisoned by pserver numbers.
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Maybe they have improved, maybe they havenât. But one thing is for sureâthey min max more than they did in 04-06.
Iâm confused, literally every single âpatch notesâ site Iâve gone to has shown the 40>45% increase in damage. Which ones are you looking at?
âhttps://vanilla-wow.fandom.com/wiki/Bloodthirstâ Here is just one that I found when doing that search. Iâm not against p-servers I played on them myself and noticed issues. My issue is when they are claimed to be 99% accurate.
how is having 10k population on one server more vanilla-like?
know why they all have such HUGE populations? cause they canât support the number of servers it would take to ACTUALLY represent vanilla wow server populations. private servers are WORSE than blizz at creating vanilla server populations because at least blizz IS going to have them as soon as layering leaves. Pservers will forever have to let thousands of extra people on their servers.
Oops, youâre taking that out of context!
One server, one population. Didnât mention population caps or numbers.
One of the things I noticed on Pservers that just didnât seem right were node spawn rates. Not just mining or herb nodes, but things like treasure chests as well. In Kharanos, there were like 10 or so food/water crates that would just spawn over and over. You could farm them and get a ton of money for a low level dwarf or gnome just by vendoring and not having to buy food.
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How do they know they increased the armor if they didnât know the starting value?
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https://vanilla-wow.fandom.com/wiki/Patch_1.9.0
Iâm going to guess thatâs just an unupdated page on that specific wiki. Never used it for anything in the past.
I guess my next question is: where do you think private servers are using 40% instead of 45% on their bloodthirsts� Or was your issue that certain calculations using old videos might be affected by the 5% difference in AP calculations?
Literally this
Well, this is the world first. I think itâs safe to assume they didnât one shot the boss (they didnât) and Iâm willing to bet they tried it with the Onyxia buff already that week and wiped. They probably waited 2 days to turn in another Hakkar buff to get as close to that as they could.
Also very possible that the warrior didnât have a Servo Arm looted to him, or that one even dropped. Loot is hard to get in Vanilla. They had Nefarian to farm for months.
They were also literally racing hundreds of guilds at the time for the World First, so they may have deemed it inefficient to get certain buffs because they were actually taking time to learn the mechanics on the boss, because no one had seen them yet.
I know there are a number of factors that changed up what their buffs were, but it does not excuse certain things like the debuffs used.
I canât make them out on the Nihilum video. They are far too small.
Curse is using worse debuffs, yes. But they are far from Nihilum.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_liAy_gYn0U
You can see these debuffs a little better.
Iâm seeing multiple Siphon Lifes, multiple corruption, huntersâ mark, immolate, TC, I think even rend at 3:47 in the 2nd row 2nd debuff.
Thrallâs balls. Iâm shocked and appalled I tell you. Shocked and appalled!
(But seriously, lolrend)
Let me pull Risenâs KT video, since they killed him two days after Nihilum.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnkvDjF6BPo
Genuinely not a bad debuff setup at the start. not ideal though.
I do start seeing Corruptions land, as well as multiple Siphon Lifes, curse of agony, mortal strike, etc. There were also a ton of trash debuffs like fireball that wouldnât have stuck on Kelly had they used actually good debuffs to minmax their raid like players do today.
I see no Winterâs Chill, I see no improved expose armor/annihilator, I see no nightfall, gift of arthas, curse of recklessness, etc.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8ELMLkQMi8
Borked, World 7th Kelly kill. I see moonfire, insect swarm, multiple siphon lifes, curse of agony, loads of corruptions, rend, etc.
Min/maxing just wasnât as intense back then, even with the cutting edge guilds.
also the warlock in that video is using flask of the titans and no spell damage potionsâŚgrossâŚ
They confirmed yesterday in an interview that Vanilla Kelâthuzad had something like 200 Frost and Shadow Resistance instead of 0, so that is probably heavily influencing their rotations.
Again, doesnât explain why the non-Nihilum guilds are making the decisions they are. But it goes to show you that some of the Private Server formulas are genuinely very wrong.
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What youâre overlooking is that while things work like this on private servers because of their state of tune it does not always work the same in Vanilla; especially when scaled up to 40 man raid size.
Also raid comp was a lot harder to muster back in those days, not because there were too few players playing, but because there were a lot fewer top end players per server simply because of the smaller server caps, and the distribution of players based on skill or class choice was more widely distributed.
Top guilds knew how to mix max down to the final Nth degree, itâs just that its first flat un-needed, and second itâs easier to run with the existing raid team you already have.
I know that guys talk about poaching other guilds tanks; my guild did this for a couple slots and it did not work out because all the âgoodâ players are usually married to their guilds because theyâre not dirtbags like the geared scum you do pickup from other guilds.
Min-maxing to the Nth degree is nice if you can do it, but itâs just not practical for most guilds and frankly itâs not needed at all.
PLEASE also consider that the private servers are set up incorrectly from the start.
- The spells are scripted based on our understanding of how they work.
- The way the spells are hot-wired together is also wrong by wrong squared.
- The way Armor / Resist Values work on Private servers is flat out confirmed wrong.
- Also consider that feedback loops exist in math, and given that WoW is a math based game you cannot change a single thing by even 2% and not expect that to have wide sweeping effects.
To illustrate a feedback loop from actual Vanilla that changed everything as far as raid goesâŚ
-
Patch 1.11 Warrior tanks produce more TPS while having slightly more defensive posture, and are able to swap bosses in more fluid succession with taunt.
-
As a result the DPS are able to go harder because no longer do they need to worry as much about pulling aggro off the tank.
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As a result the Boss dies faster.
3 As a result the healers and Caster DPS can gear more aggressively into +healing or +damage stats.
- As a result stats like +resistance are less valuable because now the healers mana is less important yet again, and in all players can gear more aggressively into +healing +damage (melee / caster).
All because tank threat was turned up slightly allowing you to effectively skip entire raid mechanics in certain situations, and or forgo the intended design of the encounter completely because the game is fundamentally broken by making what on paper looks like a small 2% change.
Thatâs a feedback loop (to a point)
This same concept is not unique to actual Classic WoW, but also very likely plagues the Private servers given the gross number of things wrong in regard to their tuning.