That guys voice annoys the crap out of me. Every word out of his mouth sounds like he’s chewing gum obnoxiously.
Who is arguing that Nostalrius and the other dedicated servers didn’t pave the way for this release? Do they not know about the Nostalrius team that made the presentation straight to Blizzard at their HQ?
The problem now is that there isn’t a Nostalrius - at least not one I’m aware of. The current ones are rife with corruption, overpopulation, and problems due to language barriers and cultural differences.
So… besides the ad hominem, anything to say? Staysafe is one of the biggest contributors to Classic being developed.
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I would completely agree. Taking away from the point of the topic to focus on those other servers allows us to look at both sides of the coin, and is a stalwart reason why Esfand and Staysafe swore off private servers. The corruption and the fact Blizzard was taking input serious enough to bring Nostalrius in led many people to the defense of Blizzard, myself included. But I also won’t sit by and say every single private server was so dead wrong on so many accounts when it has been proven to be incredibly accurate; such as what Ironsides as proved.
Having played Vanilla at a 60/hour per week clip and beyond, generating server firsts on Shadowsong, and having actually played on Nostalrius and beyond, there is a very similar line drawn. The 1-2% or 3-4% differences are going to be noticeable. But again, I think people without knowledge of private servers watching speed runs on YouTube and making grandiose assumptions is just subjective tomfoolery. Those guys making those videos have been playing far far far longer in the Vanilla and private server scene than almost any single person on these forums. There is a reason it looks so easy. When you don’t have to work, live in Denmark, and spend 100 hours a week playing WoW, you tend to get good at it.
And when those same players transition to Classic, the content is still going to be blown away. Vanilla was not as technically difficult and dynamic as content is in BFA at the extreme edge of progression. But it does require an inordinate amount of time and preparedness that is simply and wholly different.
The kobolds in Elwynn were hard on private servers even if they had less health or armor or hit less hard. They dynamically respawned on the latest iterations causing hundreds of deaths due to mobs respawning and overrunning areas and not being adjusted far after release. End result; you’re still running back to your corpse.
Now we transition into layering and sharding and we will be given a tremendous gift of a relaxed Elwynn that is not congested with 3000 players, and a slight tuning increase to the overall difficulty compared to private servers.
Players are better, more prepared, and incredibly eager. Classic is still going to be crushed regardless of preconceived notions, just on the basis of desire and for some, time allowance.
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Yes, yes they can lol wtf
First off, when finding an original value you are required to know the original calculations of the source you are using. Therefore, when using your damage done you must know your calculations involving individual stats and the like. Simply doing it backwards creates a massive margin of error.
Also they calculations are server side with a base value easily found on databases. So no, you do not know what they are. You did half of the problem not the entire problem.
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It’s done using bloodthirst, which is a constant 45% of your attack power.
It’s the entire problem. I don’t consider 70 armor a “massive margin of error”–you might. but that’s just being contrarian for the point of being contrarian.
https://web.archive.org/web/20060413193842/http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v26/ErikVKing/Magmadar-BeastLore.jpg
http://www.kurai.com/wow/naxx/maexxna.jpg
One from Naxx, and one from Molten Core. Same armor values.
Maybe they aren’t as far off as some devoted might want to believe. What are the chances a boss in and end game instance has the same armor as the 2nd raid boss in the game? Pretty high if…say…every boss in the game has the same armor values.
Ironsides my issue with you is that Blizzard has stated they are off on p-servers yet here you are arguing with the people who have the actual data and know what is correct. Whatever go back to your fantasy world of P-servers being perfectly accurate.
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Off by what? 70 armor? Do you even know what that translates to in damage? That might as well be a perfect replication.
I have factual data presented above. screenshots indicating what bosses armor actually was. private servers are using close enough values that it is indistinguishable from the real deal.
Of course Blizzard is going to say they’re wildly off. They’re trying to sell you a product that is, at a raiding level at least, already being provided. They’d be absolutely stupid to say they were accurate.
If people are really going to say private servers are spewing mumbo jumbo over what amounts to a 0.7% reduction in armor, then I’m going to keep calling them out as the clowns that they are.
You’re doing it wrong bro.
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I don’t fault you for forgetting how to do Math.
Using screen shots from vanilla and depending on an add-on from vanilla that never actually had true data, but only estimated it’s values is a really crap way to claim accuracy.
There are a lot of reasons to suspect that the values provided by old add-ons were flat wrong; if you cared about that you would dredge up those same add-ons and then reverse engineer them to see how they function if they actually function at all.
Some add-ons were were merely lookup tables while others essentially guessed values based on your characters attacks or other characters attacks. Without seeing the code you don’t know how those figures were derived.
Never did a single one actually have the real data, nor do we the players know how Blizzard calculated damage and damage reduction.
We can use educated guesses, but that only gets you so close, and even being off by 2% can cause a massive wave of changes in how the game is played; something you clearly do no comprehend.
Will using old screen shots get you into a position where you’re able to play a game that looks like vanilla wow? Sure, but it’s never going to be close; sorry.
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Those screenshots are from hunters using beast lore, a spell hunters had which told you a beasts’ exact armor and other statistics.
There’s no addons involved.
https://classic.wowhead.com/spell=1462/beast-lore
I don’t blame you for forgetting about this spell, I never used it much either.
Teaches me to actually look at your screen shot and take it seriously for once. Yes that is BL, and it’s from the correct time period. Legit armor value, but it’s not the full story regardless.
Unfortunately not all bosses are beasts and all bosses do not have the same armor values because they’re not standardized.
All bosses do not hit for the same damage; they’re not standardized.
All bosses do not have the same resistance values; they’re not standardized.
And again we still do not know exactly how armor was calculated, if there were soft caps on the amount on the total reduction that could be applied to bosses, some say this was actually so.
Additionally we don’t know how the calculations for resistance / hit / miss / glancing, etc all actually work.
Again I cannot stress enough even if you’re off by 5% total, that’s enough to entirely change the meta on what stats are useful or “BEST” for certain classes because it can drastically though a feedback loop between damage, tanking and healers; change how the encounter plays.
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They might be standardized and they might not be. I think they’re standardized at least on the armor end because of those two screenshots. I find it highly unlikely that a boss from Naxx should have the same armor as the 2nd boss from Molten Core.
Because I think they’re standardized and because other bosses armor values have been calculated to about ~3700 armor using the same methods (could provide documentation if you want, but from all other conversation with you I doubt you’d give it the time of day), I think other bosses armor values are also standardized.
I’m sure there are other screenshots out there, but I accidentally stumbled upon the Magmadar screenshot through sheer dumb luck and I only found the Maexxna one because someone linked it in a prior thread.
Either way, I’m done theorycrafting against the hordes of anti private server people because I gain very little if anything from it. I win in both scenarios.
Scenario 1: I’m right, and private servers portrayed an accurate raid environment and I get to drink in the tears of all those who argued against me.
Scenario 2: I’m wrong, and I get to enjoy a more difficult raiding environment than what I encountered in the past.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m hoping for a scenario 2, but I’m expecting a scenario 1.
Either way, I’m more bummed out about CRBGs being included in at the start of the game, and that means more to me than any kind of raid tuning.
You are ignoring the fact blizzard has stated on VIDEO that the armor values are NOT standardized. Also you said bloodthirst was fixed 45% people aren’t even sure on that I have just looked and saw some that said 40% and others saying 45%. Patch notes for 1.6.1 say 40%, so even there math is off. But keep dreaming you are right when blizzard has said in video interviews put up yesterday that armor values are NOT standardized and resists are NOT standardized.
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Which video, would you mind linking it to me? There were like 20 videos put up yesterday and I’m not wasting 6 hours trawling through them all.
Bloodthirst was buffed in 1.9 from 40>45%. Not sure why you would bring up such an easily verifiable change.
I’m assuming you meant this video.
https://youtu.be/FeqsoB4Q7sE?t=549
“Thematic Armor and Thematic Resistance Values”
aka, some bosses have more/less armor and more/less resistances depending on their “theme” so to speak.
I agree it’s very possible. But I disagree with him when he says that all bosses on private servers don’t already have thematic resist values. Try fireballing Ragnaros on LH/K3 ![:upside_down_face:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/upside_down_face.png?v=6" ":upside_down_face:")
It can also explain this huge discrepancy I saw on Kel’Thuzad’s armor on a reddit thread a while back which used kick to calculate his armor at around 3000 (much less than private servers standard 3700/4700).
It doesn’t necessarily disprove the “standardized” armor values concept. It just says “certain bosses may vary”, but the standard may very well be 3700. With values changing depending on the bosses theme (Garr being the example used in his video, Kel Thuzad being the example in https://www.reddit.com/r/wowservers/comments/az785q/proof_kelthuzad_had_just_3000_armor/)
We actually know this now, I think you may be out of the loop.
Skip to the 9 min mark.
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just found it actually, ninja edit ![:slight_smile:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/slight_smile.png?v=6" ":slight_smile:")
Yeah, I don’t know what the hell he’s talking about. Yes, the average player is much better now than the average player in Vanilla. But the best players now are 3x better than the best players in Vanilla? That’s just blatantly false.
www.youtube .com/watch?time_continue=227&v=SeL4qYgiMNk
Look at the buff rows; full. Look at the damage he is doing with Death Wish OFF cooldown. That’s definitely over 1000 (before he has to stand out of melee).
To suggest that guilds like Nihilum and Death and Taxes hadn’t figured out the game at that point is asinine.
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Is the average player better in reality?
It’s safe to say that the original players have improved, but over time new players come and old players leave.
That does cause me to doubt that the players have actually improved much if at all on the average.
Modern WoW is so automated that it will make even the worst player in Vanilla look like the god of dueling or the best of the best in the bleeding edge of PVE progression.
I totally agree, the top 1% of the players in Vanilla were freaking insanely good. Those who don’t realize just how good they were are idiots who don’t know what the skill cap of video games looks like, and they’re hardly capable of imagining it.