Comparing 1.12 honor gear to MC/BWL sets

WoW Classic WoW Classic General Discussion
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https://classicdb.ch/?itemsets#0-2+1 <- Copy paste, my 2004 vanilla account lacks the “trust level” to post hyperlinks lol.

I’m personally of the belief that 1.12 honor gear, available before AQ40, is way out of line.

And when people tell me, Cybadster, chill out bro, those PVP purps are impossible to get - well, the purples aren’t even really the main problem. It’s the blues.

Because the item level of blue 1.12 honor gear was higher than epic MC sets, and their stat distributions are generally superior, they come out as consistently equal to and in some cases better than the equivalent molten core drop.

Have a look:

Felheart Pants
Legs Cloth
89 Armor
+19 Intellect
+10 Spirit
+20 Stamina
+10 Shadow Resistance
Durability 75 / 75
Classes: Warlock
Requires Level 60

Equip: [Increases damage and healing done by magical spells and effects by up to 30.]

(3) Set: [Health or Mana gained from Drain Life and Drain Mana increased by 15%.]
(5) Set: [Your pet gains 15 stamina and 100 spell resistance against all schools of magic.]
(8) Set: [Mana cost of Shadow spells reduced by 15%.]

Knight-Captain’s Dreadweave Legguards
Legs Cloth
84 Armor
+21 Stamina
+13 Intellect
Durability 65 / 65
Classes: Warlock
Requires Level 60
Requires Knight-Captain

Equip: [Increases damage and healing done by magical spells and effects by up to 28.]

(2) Set: [Increases damage and healing done by magical spells and effects by up to 23.]
(4) Set: [Reduces the casting time of your Immolate spell by 0.2 sec.]
(6) Set: [+20 Stamina.]

That’s merely an equivalent level of power. It gets worse:

Arcanist Robes
Chest Cloth
102 Armor
+25 Intellect
+10 Spirit
+19 Stamina
+10 Fire Resistance
Durability 100 / 100
Classes: Mage
Requires Level 60

Equip: [Increases damage and healing done by magical spells and effects by up to 23.]

(3) Set: [Increases damage and healing done by magical spells and effects by up to 18.]
(5) Set: [Decreases the magical resistances of your spell targets by 10.]
(8) Set: [Decreases the threat generated by your spells by 15%.]

Knight-Captain’s Silk Tunic
Chest Cloth
156 Armor
+18 Stamina
+17 Intellect
+5 Spirit
Durability 80 / 80
Classes: Mage
Requires Level 60
Requires Knight-Captain

Equip: [Improves your chance to get a critical strike with spells by 1%.]
Equip: [Increases damage and healing done by magical spells and effects by up to 21.]

(2) Set: [Increases damage and healing done by magical spells and effects by up to 23.]
(4) Set: [Reduces the cooldown of your Blink spell by 1.5 sec.]
(6) Set: [+20 Stamina.]

The addition of crit to the PvP chestpiece makes it, for the purpose of blowing things up, a much more attractive choice. And a lot of the PvP set bonuses are easier to activate, plus you can mix and match these bonuses if you want to double dip. MC is already easy enough with that nonsense.

I’m not by any means a fanatical #nochanges sort of guy, at least so long as the features and elements we’re playing with stay vanilla in scope and iteration, but I think releasing 1.12 honor gear early is an example of a chronological inaccuracy that is really harmful to the early game. Take a look at the database I linked, and tell me what you think.

3 Likes
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i wish people would do the work to in depth compare earlier talent/spell builds rather than complain about minor stat differences all the time

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1% crit wasn’t a minor stat difference back in vanilla. Additionally, you need to remember that the blue honor gear was pretty easy to get on most servers. You could blast up to rank 10 in far, far less time than it took to complete an MC set.

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4

try to remember that pre-rework warlocks were literally literally unplayable, but yeah some crit is huge

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Legionnaire’s Silk Robes
Binds when picked up
Unique

Chest Cloth

89 Armor
+20 Stamina
+20 Intellect
Durability 80 / 80
Classes: Mage
Requires Level 58
Requires Legionnaire

Equip: [Improves your chance to get a critical strike with spells by 1%.]

Arcanist Robes
Binds when picked up

Chest Cloth

102 Armor
+25 Intellect
+10 Spirit
+19 Stamina
+10 Fire Resistance
Durability 100 / 100
Classes: Mage
Requires Level 60

Equip: [Increases damage and healing done by magical spells and effects by up to 23.]

This is the comparison you are looking for.

The item level 63 sets with the level 58 level requirements I believe is what they’ll start out with as that’s how it was in vanilla. At some point, maybe when AQ is introduced, they would introduce the higher item level blue set requiring level 60.

At least that’s how they should do it.

2 Likes
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I agree, that is how they should do it.

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Oh. I guess I missed that part. Interesting…

I’d be in favor of the more vanilla like way of doing it.

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As would I. I’m fine with improving vanilla with vanilla, and nothing else. I’m not fine with making it worse for no explainable reason.

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Yes. Although to be fair t1 will have been out for a while when they release the PvP system.

2 Likes
10

I’m not going to disagree about the blue gear.

Though I will note that in 1.12 T1 sets aren’t BiS for that tier for a lot of classes because it’s itemized kind of poorly. Even if you ignore PvP gear entirely, it’s still not BiS for T1 content for many classes.

3 Likes
11

Yeah, now that you mention it, doesn’t this kind of completely undermine their pivot on the release date of Maraudon? EDIT: Dire Maul, not Maraudon. They pushed that back specifically because it was A. Inaccurate and B. Screwed with the correct itemization for the tier.

1.12 honor gear too early is the same problem, but on steroids. They need to dig up the old stats for the pre-1.12 honor gear.

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3 pieces of mage BiS coming from pvp during phase 2 seems too high. It does feel like there will be huge pressure for people to get to rank 10 even if they don’t care about wpvp, they will feel obligated to go farm lower level players.

I think the easy fix for Blizzard is to just release the unbuffed versions until a later phase.

2 Likes
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Farming lower level players doesn’t give much honor. Five levels lower and you don’t get any honor at all. Far better to farm players sporting pvp rank - the higher the rank the more honor the killer gets. It is going to be a fun and intense time for wPVP.

*** I am a pvp’er not a raider. I do agree that this gear is showing up a little earlier than is strictly ideal. However, Phase 3 will come soon enough. I don’t think you will see enough players sporting the blue pvp set to throw the raiding scene out of balance. I think it will be an imbalance that solves itself rather quickly.

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Yeah I agree it’s not optimal having the 1.12 versions at phase 2.
But that said it’s not the end of the world either.
They won’t affect MC all that much because MC will be there from the start and BWL will be hard enough with them anyway.

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If Blizzard has the data from that far back, I would say the best solution is to put every item at its earlier itemization and update them along with the 1.10 loot tables during that phase.

A number of PvE items were also considerably buffed.

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Isn’t the old PVP armor stats already documented though? Atleast on Gith and wowwiki ETC, then again i just don’t think they’d put in the extra work.

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It’s documented, but that doesn’t mean they found it in their own Blizzard tables. I suspect they are staying away from 3rd party data captures. I can’t think of any other reason they would start with the 1.12 pvp gear set.

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I think it’s a matter of accuracy. If I remember right, it was noted trolling the internet archive site produced a lot of inaccuracies and the database used by private servers is still about 60% automation.

Plus, it can’t track if proc rates ever changed or not. We still don’t even know the real 1.12 proc rate on items like Ironfoe and Nightfall.

and if you’re going to do it, it should be done for every item. Not just a select few.

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That’s true enough i suppose maybe they don’t have the old data themselves

I’m acutally not to sure how much Data was changed in Wowwiki over the year about older info it’s sorta why i brought it up, i could see it changed in Github, but not so much in WoWwiki.

As for procs i agree with that, sorta why i said stats, since the PVP armor’s didn’t really have proc’s i believe, But the older blue version is much better then the one they added in later.

Agreed but there’s no way that would happen, again it’s just too much work.

Edit : Example being https://wowwiki.fandom.com/wiki/Knight-Lieutenant's_Plate_Boots

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They’re the best gear comparisons you can find? Lol.

Non-issue.