Classic will be entertaining...unless you're a Paladin

Classes Paladin
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In PvE maybe, because in PvP Paladins are immortal gods.

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23

theirs actually a ret build atm on pservers that not only keeps up comptetivly but can pull ahead. Will have to check my stream to see how good it is in classic

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Lmao yes. My first main was a human paladin back in Vanilla. OMFG it sucked back. RET couldn’t dps with a… Prot tanking was mediocre compared to Warriors. I stuck with him through WOTLK bc he was my first char.

This is going to apply to a lot of classes. People cry today about class imbalance. Guess what, it was even more imbalanced back then. I am so happy for my paladin now and have seen so many changes come and go for my fav class. People will be in for a rude awakening.

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25

Too much time/effort/gold is required for a Ret pally to min-max just to do mediocre at best DPS. You can get the BiS gear, have every known consumable and world buff, and be the “best ret pally” and still lag behind every rogue and fury warrior that is half-afk.

From someone that played both Ret and Holy back in vanilla, here’s my advice:

Spec Holy if you want to raid and actually contribute to your guild’s progress. Then roll/spend extra DKP on Ret loot for when you want to smash noobs in pvp with juicy Seal of Command procs (once your proper DPS is geared). But if your heart is set on raiding as Ret, just know that you would be better off DPS’ing on any pure class. You can DPS as Ret, sure. But you won’t be contributing anything of real value to the other 39 people in your raid.

If you have no desire to raid as holy, and just want to smash people as Ret, then activate neckbeard mode and grind BGs all day, every day for rank 14. From firsthand experience I don’t recommend the grind, but the gear is good for those that loathe pve.

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26

but those sweet vengeance procs and the glowy hands tho…

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27

Another solution is to just roll rogue and laugh at everything that isn’t a warrior.

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28

or play ret put the hours in pull as much as a rogue/war and then show off on forums to all the ignorant haters. even if lets pretend I agreed with u and ret is lower then those 2 it would still pull enough to be used in a raid. Vanilla raids are not about dps and rets with full consumbles without the new op builds pull more then enough dps to down every boss. A fight like patchwerk for example rets pulled enugh in vanilla to beat that dps check. Most top guilds in vanilla had massive subpar players. My point is you have this stigma on ret when in reality its not bad to have. My guild is gonna have 2

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Only optimal builds pushing optimal DPS should ever be allowed in any raid, regardless of tier. Anything less than that is unacceptable and an outright disservice to other members of the team.

And for the record: I did play ret in vanilla. I was very good at it. The “op build” was around back then. Other classes would still DPS it under the table, and that’s /without/ using consumables. Bringing consumables into the equation just widens the gap further. My ret paladin with full BiS was leagues behind my warrior in full BiS.

Also, bear in mind that the pserver you claim to have tested this on likely operates very differently than retail classic did, and it will definitely operate differently than the upcoming version of classic.

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well I’v also done a lot of testing on beta and while Its only 40 Iv discovered a lot. Your talking to someone whos consistently raided top 10 us /raid lead top 10 us over the course of 14/15 years on and off. only in the last few expacs did I cut back. So I don’t really need your advice for optimal raid comps. And while your correct in retail certain classes/specs arent brought in certain fights because of holding back the group thats because these bosses have massive mechanics/dps checks that vanilla doesnt have. The only time vanilla has actual mechanics is aq/naxx and their still not on the level of retail. And not something you cheese by stacking spriests for example. But please keep arguing with your vast experience.

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I’m not taking private serverse as exact. Also Pservers are roughly a 7% difference to vanilla. Assuming certain abilities/stacks dont work which still could work on classic. Again That could be wrong too as classic is not private servers. I’m confused on why it bothers you though. Your guild doesn’t have to have a ret in it. Their were rets in the top guilds in classic btw it was rare but they had em and used em. Keep your hatred flowing brother.

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Did it ever occur to you that perhaps some others have equal, if not greater, raiding experience? Some of us have played this game since its original beta, and many of those of us that have done so also saw great success in raiding over the years.

Also, what hate? I /like/ ret paladins. I’m just against feeding people inaccurate information.

In any case, you’re missing the point. You’re also greatly underestimating the kind of danger Naxx 40, which you most likely never cleared, actually poses to players. The RNG in several of those fights was insane. Sure, they were mechanically simple, but the bosses had certain abilities that might just “accidentally” target every healer in the raid simultaneously, tank busters that would go off out of order without any warning, and a bad habit of getting in multiple white hits at once for an instant tank kill.

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Those mechanics dont effect having a ret in. I Mean hell you couldnt kill 4 horsmen unless you have 8 tanks hit capped in vanilla. still doesnt mean you cant/wont kill it with a ret. Funny how you bascially tell me not to make assumptions then you make em about me. Also you keep spouting its false information but you actually dont know what will/wont work. Your knowledge is outdated and based on a stigma about rets in vanilla. I think ret has multiple viable builds this new build is just something I think beats out all the others. But not sure what false information you think is being put out. If you put the time in to farm all the consumables and put a lot of hours of grinding in. You can raid as ret and clear the content. Rets did it in vanilla though rare and more rets will do it in classic as while people still hate rets more people are open minded.

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But your right about one thing we wont know anything for sure till classic hits. And I’l be streaming all of it. So come to talk crap or maybe come and change your view. Idc either way what you do. I’m gonna be ret maining and clearing all the content and having a blast

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Good on you, then. Whether it works or not, ret was fun back then. … Not to mention hilariously broken in PvP.

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Caper, are you the leader of your guild that will be taking 2 Rets to progression? I see no reason your raid would be so welcoming otherwise. As Jaratus said, I too love Ret. But raiding as Ret in Classic is a disservice to the other 39 people in your raid.

Honestly, you think if you put in the same effort on a rogue or warrior you wouldn’t be significantly ahead of where you’d be on your Ret? Over a decade of theory crafting and pserver experimentation still hasn’t put Ret above a pure DPS class.

So all things being equal (gear, skill, consumables, etc.), you would perform much better on a proper DPS class. Do what you want, of course. Especially if you’re the GM/Raid Leader. But The only way you’ll be at the top of the DPS meters is if your raid is full of :dog::poop:. If the other 39 people don’t care about min-maxing, then have at it.

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yes I am leading it and this kinda comment is insane. If lets say rets were weaker and we use the regular numbers the pull. My raid might kill it in 4:20 seconds opposed to 4:00 min give or take 20 seconds. That doesnt mean we couldnt/wouldnt kill it first. Vanilla is not a dps race and having extra utility isnt a downside in raid. Not even talking abuot off healing I’m talking about bops salv lay on hands. Saying its a disservice is just ignorance and lack of raiding knowledge. but I’m not sitting here and arguing. This is the stigma of rets. People thought the same thing about ret in BC and I proved em wrong in bc and other expansions. Also my guilds are full of top tier players and I didnt say Id be #1 on dps. I said it can be competitive. I even looked at it on your side hypothetically and it still isnt a hinderance to bring a ret.

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Ignorance? Lack of raiding knowledge? There you go with your assumptions again. I played Ret and Holy extensively in Vanilla. Including raiding up to KT in Naxx.

I was trying to have a friendly discussion with you, but you’re clearly defensive about your inevitable place on the dps meters. Since you’d like to lob insults rather than answer simple questions such as “wouldn’t YOU (Caperx) do more for your raid extering the same effort/skill on a proper dps class?” What utility do you think you’ll bring as Ret, that you wouldn’t bring as Holy and leaving space open for a pure dps class?

So thanks for turning a simple chat with people who don’t feel the same as you into scorched earth. Good luck with your stream, and proving everyone wrong. At least we know why Rets will be in your raids though… :wink:

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39

raiding in vanilla doesnt mean you have good raiding knowledge. Vanilla is a 15 year old game that has evolved and changed massively over the years. Classic is going to be vastly different the vanilla , raid compositions, builds ,specs u see whille be different. Not entirely and I’m sure people will still play the old way. But if you think classic is going to be a exact vanilla replica your just wrong. People have learned how to play since then. People in top guilds clicked their abilities and moved with WASD. Not all but most. And theorycrafting /how we get data has changed massively. So yes having raided in vanilla doesn’t mean you have good knowledge/raiding exp.

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So “most people” in “top guilds” were clickers and KB turners? You’re just embarrassing yourself further with statements like that man… Did you actually play back then, and raid at a high level? You think Ion was clicking back in Vanilla Naxx? Somehow keybinds were unknown until many years later, even among the top players in the world? :roll_eyes:

Anyway, had you said “Ret isn’t optimal, but I want try to make it work the best I can, in spite of its limitations”, people wouldn’t be calling you out. Instead, you’re suggesting that you have some magical formula to overcome some major gaps in what Ret can do, and beat equally geared/skilled/consumed up pure DPS specs/ I have no doubt that people will be able to raid as Ret, and kill some bosses. That same raid will have more success with an equally skilled DPS class though, while all the utility you bring can be given by a holy pally.

So defensive and insulting because you don’t want to accept the hard truth…

/shrug

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41

I played a pally through vanilla since day one and my experience was as follows

Ret - Seal of Casino was not dependable. Lose some fights. win others. too random. All the good gear from raids was given to warriors. You were required to heal in raids. Nothing worse than finally getting close to a mage or druid and you auto attack, with zero procs. Then they run away again.

Judgement gear was a ret paladin set even though you were healing in raids… Completely counter intuitive on blizzards behalf.

No gap closer made pvp very difficult. Try vsing a mage… you get instant cancer through your screen. Freedom and Wings were spell steal-able…

Prot - Just didnt work, the aoe was fine but with NO taunt, you couldn’t raid. The rotation was clunky and had no gap closer

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