Classic will be entertaining...unless you're a Paladin

Much as I liked many aspects of Classic, I don’t think I can replay it as a Paladin because in all honesty the class was absolute trash outside of one role.

Protection just didn’t work and didn’t have the tools to legitimately tank like a Warrior or Druid which is why it was for all intents and purposes a defunct spec until the Burning Crusade.

And Ret? Hoo boy, where to begin?

Right off the bat, it wasn’t a viable spec because the developers openly considered it a joke and treated it as such and furthermore suffered intentional sabotage because several developers with a history of discrimination from previous games like Everquest outright hated it.

With only a single weak attack, Judgement, and an AoE, Consecration, Ret’s damage was entirely dependent on RNG via 30 sec duration Seals like the infamous Seal of Command (better known as Seal of Casino). Which, by the way, could be dispelled.

With no damage consistency and weak damage compared to every other melee DPS, the spec was likewise discriminated against by the playerbase itself who made light of the developer’s own discrimination thereof by making it nigh impossible to join a group much less a raid unless you were primarily specced as Holy and healed.

And as a final insult, Warriors were almost always given gear priority over you because they were a ‘serious’ DPS spec.

If you decided to try your hand at PvP as Ret, good luck because your only gap closer was…running after your opponent at normal speed. And yes I am serious. No snares, no speed boosts, nothing. Without these basic melee tools, your battles will ALWAYS be dictated by your opponents who had the added advantage of being able to run away from you if, by some miracle, you actually managed to hurt them enough for death to be a distinct possibility.

The only advantage you had was Cleanse and Blessing of Freedom which, admittedly, made you pretty hard to lock down. Unfortunately, if your opponent had any idea how to play whatsoever, it wouldn’t make a lick of difference because they would just use hard CC and simply kite you to death, and there wasn’t a thing you could do about it.

In short, your toolset was only effective if your opponent was a complete idiot who didn’t know how to play their own class.

Feeling depressed yet? Don’t worry, it gets worse. I haven’t even mentioned the fact that Blessings lasted 5 lousy minutes and you have to apply them individually. That’s right…if you happened to get into a group at all, most of your time will be spent listening to your group whine about you refreshing their Blessings.

But don’t fret, there is a silver lining to it all! With the joys of Divine Suicide…err Intervention, you can ensure your own worthless existence at least serves a purpose by dying to save a more useful class upon a wipe. Don’t you feel righteous?

So in closing, I want to warn you. Don’t make the mistake I made of going for the class with the shiny plate armor, because unless you absolutely love healing for a living and nothing else, you’re going to hate your life if you choose a Paladin.

Do what I should have done in Classic: roll a different class. I’ve played Retribution since Vanilla so please believe me when I say I am trying to spare you pain by warning you off.

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brother I think you over think this a bit. Prot was perfectly fine tanking most content outside of raiding. Ret’s damage wasnt the best I wont argue that, but it offered alot of utility that other classes just didnt have. So to anyone reading this if you want to play a paladin then play one. dont let the forum “the sky is falling” peeps tell you not too.

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Protection did not yet have its iconic Avenger’s Shield that gave it a niche of its own, nor did it have the survivability and utility other tanks specs had which is why it was barely ever used before TBC.

You could in theory run instances with one, but when Warriors and Druids were so much better at it why would groups want to bother with a clearly inferior tank? It just wasn’t worth the risk.

As for Retribution utility, while its utility was unique the problem was the Holy spec possessed all the same utility AND made a far superior contribution to the group in terms of survivability, which is why they were always taken over a Ret Paladin whose damage was generally too low and inconsistent to be worthwhile. Better to get a proper DPS class like a Warrior for example and bring a Holy Paladin as your healer if you wanted their utility without Retribution’s drawbacks.

As with Protection, bringing a Ret Paladin over a class the developers actually designed to DPS properly just wasn’t worth the risk when bringing a real DPS class was guaranteed to improve your odds.

I don’t think I’m being overly melodramatic in my observations. Like I said, I used to be a Ret Paladin from Vanilla to the present day and saw these situations firsthand.

All I’m saying is if you want to roll a Paladin in Classic, know what you’re signing up for. And if you have any aspirations besides dedicated healing as Holy, you’re very likely going to be setting yourself up for disappointment and are better off playing a different class if you want to tank or DPS on a serious level.

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Pallies can tank raids, it just required more work than Warriors. And before you bring up how it can’t because it doesn’t have a taunt: Blessing of Sactuary was a reverse taunt.

You have to remember, the average skill of high-end raiders back in Vanilla was keyboard turning and clicking. So there was so, so, so much room to improve.

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Dodge rogues could also tank raids.

You are also severely underestimating the skill players had. You are conflating not using a raid mod with not having skill. Raiders in WoW usually raided without the aid of a raid mod but that doesn’t mean they had no skill.

I think paladin tank and dps wasn’t viable until wrath. Avengers shield was added in wrath I believe. Ret wasn’t that bad if you had bis gear.

I cant comment on this coz i wasnt a high level player back in the day but i did watch the classicast podcast with Kevin Jordan that designed pretty much all thr classes in vanilla but particularly the paladin class. He had interesting ideas for the paladin which was suppose to be a frontline heavy plate wearing big hammer wielding class. For ret the seal and judgement delicery system was designed. For prot they didnt give taunt because they wanted a paladin to tank in a a savior type fashion as opposed to just yelling as warriors do. And holy was not suppose to be a flash healing bot at the back of the raid. He admits pretty much they missed the marks they were hoping for in all aspects of the paladin class … and the naxxramas gear which was explicitely holy speced was due to preasure from the community asking for tier gear for the most optimal specs of each class and in case of the paladin that was holy spec.
Listening to him talk about class design and game design made me appreciate even more the work the devs had done over the years in trying to make every class and spec viable and also understand what a tough job it is and the journey of the learning process of what works and what doesnt.

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Isn’t the problem with Prot paladins tanking raids in classic crushing blows? I didn’t tank in classic but I remember tanking in TBC and holy shield only giving 35% block and making it a lot harder for paladins to push crushing blows off the hit table than warriors could with shield block being 75%.

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i bet people are gonna roll paladins with this skewed 20/20 vision (paladins can tank, we can do dps, just let us show you this time! XD XD ) and then realize how utterly terrible it is.

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Problem with prot in vanilla is lack of gear, taunt and the ability to return mana in combat. Seal of wisdom does nothing. TBC solved most of this with prot paladins getting mana back on heals, a taunt that required a macro to work great (best taunt in the game since it taunted 3 targets) and yes TBC they did get avenger’s shield, however it was a cast time and you could only use it pre pull.

Prot could tank -any- boss in TBC, even Gurtogg bloodboil, warrior tank just can’t be retarded.

All in all, prot paladins in Vanilla can do instances just fine, might take a tad longer but it works.

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I played a Hpal during vanilla basically because my friend told me it was a noob friendly class/spec when I started playging WoW

Yeah, if you dont like Holy stay away from Paladin in Classic, because that was the only viable spec for getting into groups.

We were healing bots with blessing uptime management.

I dont dont even miss it that much because Prot is my thing now.

I´ll probably roll Warrior,
somehow, after all this years, I never tried one.

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Retribution was not a welcome part of most dungeon or raid groups, did not bring any utility other than its blessings and suicide button that other classes couldn’t do better, could NOT backup heal at all due to mana constraints and pitifully weak spell potency, routinely got out-DPSed by the dedicated healers (i.e. holy priests), and spent much of the time (in the unlikely event it was allowed to come to a raid) being laughed at.

Prot was not perfectly fine for tanking most content outside of raids. It performed extremely poorly at nearly all levels of play other than a few niche fights (granted, some of which were in raids) that played heavily to its few strengths. Its use was regularly frowned upon.

Having said all this, I would point out that we know a lot more about what we’re doing now than we did then. It is very likely prot might be useful for a few more things than we originally believed. Retribution, however, is very likely to wind up in the same boat as it was. It simply does not have the tools or power necessary to fulfill the demands of its role, leaving its would-be spot open to actual DPS classes.

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Honestly everyone playing this game now is such a huge nerd that classic is going to be blown through so play what you want

Ret is actually not bad in classic. Its good in pvp and pve. Its a common stigma/view a lot of people have because they dont understand a lot about how to play ret and they dont want to commit the hours farming which is double any other class to min max in raid. Rets also very gear intensive and can take up a debuff slot. Which is a huge turn off. Ret can not only raid in top end in classic but can be a pure dps role. It doesn’t have to be. It can be the nightfall buffer /offhealer. But dps wise rets not as bad as people think in Classic.

Early tiers your gonna be weaker as the gear isnt built for ret. But As tiers progress gear becomes actually insane. Take the aq 40 gear for example and dont get me started on how good ret is for undead (aka all of nax). Most guilds and players all think the same so they don’t give their rets gear in vanilla and force them to offheal. Which is fine if thats the role u need filled. Also most rets who arent getting the gear anyway dont wanna put the time in to farm all the things needed before each raid. Were talking 40 hours of farming a week minimal if not more. As your farming spell power/mana runes as well as ap things. I’ve been pretty casual in retail as of late cuz the games pretty terrible but I have raided/led top 10 us multiple tiers various years and been top 5 parsing ret in multiple tiers.

My hope is to encourage people and show them rets not as bad as the stigma surrounded by it in vanilla. I’m leading a guild in classic and I’l be streaming all the content and I’m going to pushing #1 pve Ret world. If your dreams to play ret in vanilla and to shun the naysayers feel free to follow my stream. To ask questions or just to hang out and see ret gameplay in vanilla. twitch.tv /judgejudyx

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Extensive testing was conducted back in vanilla, actually. Several top guilds threw BiS at their rets just to see what kind of damage they could output in Naxx, and they were /still/ beaten out by everyone else. No matter how many times people repeat this, it’s not going to change: vanilla ret will never be able to compete with warriors, rogues, or mages.

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in vanilla the top tier players werent good players. By that I mean the entire game was brand new and it took expansions before players got good. I’m talking about everyone. Dont misundertand for the classic state of the game they were good but I’m talking more general. The skill level was vastly lower in general and game knowledge wasnt where it is now. If you dropped the top vanilla raiders at the time into mythic raiding they would flop and crumble. Their are so many things that people have learned in the last 14 years that wasnt known back then that are far different in vanilla. Private servers have helped with this for not just ret but all specs. In vanilla people also didnt know the best stats/elixir,food,weapon stones,buffs etc. for ret.

Also I’m not saying rets gonna be #1 DPS. It could but thats not what I’m saying at all. It can def be competive though. Even being top 15 dps in a 40 man raid is good. Dps requirments in general were not like they are now. Their were dps checks but it just required everyone pulling a certain numbers which ret pulled above anyway. For a lot of bosses half the raid is dead on kills at least at first. Some had people literally standnig out of combat entire fight to rez the dead. So saying they cant be competitive is just silly. Based on pserver testing I know they can be competitive but while Private servers arent 100% accurate they have shown and helped a lot of things. The meta has evolved massively since vanilla. And with so many people coming back I imagine its going to evolve more.

Iv been ret since the begging vanillas not the only tier they told me ret is bad/not competitive and I proved people wrong every expansion which was 70% of expansions. Only a few expansions was ret ever considered decent. Don’t have to believe me follow the stream find out for yourself.

I’m actually looking forward to playing Holy in classic. As Thete put it - would you rather play a below average DPS or a superb healer? Especially with my brother playing prot warrior (and he played Prot originally in BC). We’re going to be a popular duo.

Paladin is gonna be great!

Paladin is great because of being able to do a little bit of it all, with all the utility they have, especially pvp. I think its a benefit to paladins in pvp, that warriors will be so popular. BG’s are a fun place to be a hybrid.

PvE, what I’m looking forward to is collecting the gear for spelladin/shockadin. I’m even more inspired by it after this thread… The Spelladin - new Retribution meta for Classic - #260 by Purjery-muradin

I don’t mind healing/blessing/cleasning to get to that point. Its part of being a hybrid. T1/T2 will be easy anyway to heal.

If I had not sank so much time into my Paladin, I would of dropped it (which I sort of did for Warlock in Classic). But I kept the toon and now it’s… well a lot of fun. But in Vanilla… dark, dark times.

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If you get top 15 in a raid in classic as a ret, that doesn’t mean you are making ret work. That means everyone below you is either horribly undergeared, bad at the game, or memeing.

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