I'd like to point out that ring slots, weapon slots, or anything besides the 8-piece set slots do not pertain to this discussion at all.
This thread is about the Dungeon Set 2 upgrades from Dungeon Set 1.
Please keep it on track.
You mean farm a 10 man raid for something like, I don't know:
https://vanilla-twinhead.twinstar.cz/?item=18103
This?
What exactly are you getting at? Don't dress up your witty retorts now.
12/21/2017 08:34 PMPosted by Chriss44AC13I'd like to point out that ring slots, weapon slots, or anything besides the 8-piece set slots do not pertain to this discussion at all.
This thread is about the Dungeon Set 2 upgrades from Dungeon Set 1.
Please keep it on track.
Actually they DO pertain to this discussion because they drop from the bosses that are summonable in the Dungeon set 2 questline.
See? There's something I didn't know. Thank you!
Now let's set the drama aside and actually talk about the added gear from this patch (1.10). Make sure to include stats in your comparisons.
Still looking forward to what Dazelle has to say!
Now let's set the drama aside and actually talk about the added gear from this patch (1.10). Make sure to include stats in your comparisons.
Still looking forward to what Dazelle has to say!
12/21/2017 08:35 PMPosted by Parano392C8D
You mean farm a 10 man raid for something like, I don't know:
https://vanilla-twinhead.twinstar.cz/?item=18103
This?
What exactly are you getting at? Don't dress up your witty retorts now.12/21/2017 08:34 PMPosted by Chriss44AC13I'd like to point out that ring slots, weapon slots, or anything besides the 8-piece set slots do not pertain to this discussion at all.
This thread is about the Dungeon Set 2 upgrades from Dungeon Set 1.
Please keep it on track.
Actually they DO pertain to this discussion because they drop from the bosses that are summonable in the Dungeon set 2 questline.
Having some trouble finding a BIS list that shows that ring you linked. Surely you have other examples of comparable BWL loot.
12/21/2017 08:45 PMPosted by Brokenwind
Having some trouble finding a BIS list that shows that ring you linked. Surely you have other examples of comparable BWL loot.
Lol, obvious troll at this point.
This will be my last treat to you.
https://db.vanillagaming.org/?item=16928
https://db.vanillagaming.org/?item=22077
That set upgrade was just wasted content, it took too much time and money to upgrade even when it was released since the stats weren't exactly stellar. The only people I know who made a full set, were raiders who loved to collect junk.
It was also outshadowed very quickly with ZG gear, which was on average easier to get.
To make it relevant, all pieces should be epic and it could have some relevant bonuses on a few pieces, like hit and spell hit, weapon skills, defense, etc. It's sad when that blue cloth belt from BRD arena is much better for nukers than 0.5 stuff while also being very easy to get.
It was also outshadowed very quickly with ZG gear, which was on average easier to get.
To make it relevant, all pieces should be epic and it could have some relevant bonuses on a few pieces, like hit and spell hit, weapon skills, defense, etc. It's sad when that blue cloth belt from BRD arena is much better for nukers than 0.5 stuff while also being very easy to get.
12/21/2017 09:03 PMPosted by Parano392C8D12/21/2017 08:45 PMPosted by Brokenwind
Having some trouble finding a BIS list that shows that ring you linked. Surely you have other examples of comparable BWL loot.
Lol, obvious troll at this point.
This will be my last treat to you.
https://db.vanillagaming.org/?item=16928
https://db.vanillagaming.org/?item=22077
Yes, expecting to have someone back up a statement like you made is unadulterated trolling.
Comparable to me means that someone would have to give some thought as to whether or not one was an upgrade over the other. You have failed to demonstrate that someone would have a hard time deciding which of the two to wear. The rest of your list you haven't even bothered to make the slightest case for. Hell, you didn't even expend the effort to copy/paste the stats so that readers did not have to go look elsewhere to get them. Put more effort in if you want to discuss things properly.
I only remember having some of the most fun I've ever had questing and grouping for the 0.5 pieces and would absolutely love them to be introduced into the game, but I also remember them directly replacing the 0 pieces, if I'm remembering correctly.
I'd personally love to hit them up right off the get go, would love love love it. But I can understand that it would help trivialize current raid content to an extent. But it also would definately make it easier for casual guilds to experience content. Or for completionists to have fun with them. The more hardcore guilds would already surpassed them given the amount of time it would take for them. And I even think ZG had better pieces. 0.5 was just a set for the casual bunch to have a few purples and be happy about it. Even if I never raid I'd still love to track these guys down again and complete the set.
Heart tells me immediately release. Mind tells me maybe should wait a little bit on it. Stomach tells me to put tacos in it and butt tells me it's itchy. so I'm kinda at an impasse on this.
But that doesn't change the fact that I loved doing the quest lines that much though.
I'd personally love to hit them up right off the get go, would love love love it. But I can understand that it would help trivialize current raid content to an extent. But it also would definately make it easier for casual guilds to experience content. Or for completionists to have fun with them. The more hardcore guilds would already surpassed them given the amount of time it would take for them. And I even think ZG had better pieces. 0.5 was just a set for the casual bunch to have a few purples and be happy about it. Even if I never raid I'd still love to track these guys down again and complete the set.
Heart tells me immediately release. Mind tells me maybe should wait a little bit on it. Stomach tells me to put tacos in it and butt tells me it's itchy. so I'm kinda at an impasse on this.
But that doesn't change the fact that I loved doing the quest lines that much though.
12/21/2017 06:14 PMPosted by Chriss44AC13You also have to remember that Dungeon Set 2 is an upgrade, meaning you need to have already collected all of Dungeon Set 1 to get it. It would actually require more grinding to deck people out in Dungeon Set 2, which renders this whole argument a moot point in regards to PvE.
How does it taking time to acquire Dungeon Set 2 make it a moot point for PvE? Time is all raiders will have between raid lockouts.
Besides, what reason would Blizzard have to stagger this particular content? Dungeon Set 1 is obtainable right from the get-go and to my knowledge, this stuff is all able to be acquired pre-MC
I thought I made it pretty clear why, because the Dungeon Set 2 is a significant upgrade from the Dungeon set 1 and semi-comparable to T1 which will diminish the challenge of MC. How is that NOT a reason to stagger it?
Let me put it to you like this: If it were to take Blizzard's team an additional week of programming and development to prepare a delayed Dungeon Set 2, would you still insist on it? Would the community insist on it?
Since Classic is years away yes, an extra week would be a fairly irrelevant length of time to wait :)
12/21/2017 06:14 PMPosted by Chriss44AC13Thus, I stand by my previous sentiment that these sets were designed for people who wanted solid PvP gear
This was a point I never argued.
12/21/2017 06:14 PMPosted by Chriss44AC13Will they help in PvE? Absolutely
THIS however is the point I'm trying to make. Ultimately you agree and just don't seem to care that these being in at launch will help in PvE while I do and those are both valid opinions.
That being said It's also kind of weird because the quest chain is tied to things that I don't think even existed at launch (Dire Maul, Twilight cultist gear and Argent Dawn rep), plus I'm not sure if a 45 minute baron run would even be possible at launch again depending on what Classic has at the start and how things are tuned. If we're basically on 1.12 with all the latest content and itemization then a 45 minute baron is going to be easy and MC isn't going to be very challenging anyways. If that's the case then yea, there's no point in not having the dungeon set 2 from the start.
Actually when I think about it it's probably not going to matter much, either Blizzard is going to release Classic similar to the pirated 1.12 servers where all the latest itemization and class balance exists (including D2), or they're going to do a heavily progressive server where a lot of things are staggered. The chances of things being staggered enough to make MC a challenge is low imo, which will make the impact the D2 set has on PvE quite small.
12/22/2017 08:36 AMPosted by DazelleActually when I think about it it's probably not going to matter much, either Blizzard is going to release Classic similar to the pirated 1.12 servers where all the latest itemization and class balance exists (including D2), or they're going to do a heavily progressive server where a lot of things are staggered. The chances of things being staggered enough to make MC a challenge is low imo, which will make the impact the D2 set has on PvE quite small.
Personally I suspect they will go with 1.12 itemization and class balance, progressive rollout of the stuff like DM, war effort and other content all tuned to 1.12.
If they have the D2 quests available at the beginning, folks will still need to acquire the set pieces of D1, and the progressive rollout of DM, AD, War effort, etc is a natural time gate to the availability of the top pieces of D2.
In regards to the Baron run; if what I suspect above is how they do things, then the tuned Strat will have to be tested a bunch with the earlier D2 pieces being available. Otherwise if they roll out D2 after Strat is tuned then the 45 min will be (edit) easier and may need buffed to compensate after the fact.
Of course they could test the tuning of Strat ahead of time on a test server that has the D2 belt/boots/gloves available.
For the record, this thread is the only place I have ever seen "Baron Run" and "Easy" in the same sentence, in any context of vanilla.
12/22/2017 06:42 AMPosted by Brokenwind
Yes, expecting to have someone back up a statement like you made is unadulterated trolling.
Comparable to me means that someone would have to give some thought as to whether or not one was an upgrade over the other. You have failed to demonstrate that someone would have a hard time deciding which of the two to wear. The rest of your list you haven't even bothered to make the slightest case for. Hell, you didn't even expend the effort to copy/paste the stats so that readers did not have to go look elsewhere to get them. Put more effort in if you want to discuss things properly.
Comparable means similar.
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/comparable
When an easily farmed ring is only 5 less sp than a ring that drops off a 1x/week boss in BWL that requires 4x the players it is comparable. Because that ring doesn't cost DKP. It doesn't cost loot council favor. It's just barely better.
Honestly if you can't be bothered to right click>open in new tab on links I don't really care to outline things for you.
12/22/2017 08:50 AMPosted by Brokenwind
For the record, this thread is the only place I have ever seen "Baron Run" and "Easy" in the same sentence, in any context of vanilla.
Baron runs are easy. Play any 1.12 server. Players are better now.
12/22/2017 03:32 PMPosted by Parano392C8DPlayers are better now
I don't know why this keeps popping up, players are not better now, wow has gotten easier over time and in turn the skill cap players need to hit is lower making players, on average worse. What is better now is the interface, UI and mods, not players.
By 1.12 players were far more powerful and instances had gotten far easier via nerfs, neither of those were the case early in wow's life.
12/22/2017 04:44 PMPosted by Dazelle12/22/2017 03:32 PMPosted by Parano392C8DPlayers are better now
I don't know this keeps popping up, players are not better now, wow has gotten easier and in turn the skill cap players need to hit is lower making players, on average worse. What is better now is the interface, UI and mods, not players.
By 1.12 players were far more powerful and instances had gotten far easier via nerfs, neither of those were the case early in wow's life.
Agreed. Which is why I'd be adamant that should they start with all the balancing set at v1.12, that they properly and thoroughly tune all of the content to that level ahead of time.
I have heard that the .5 gear makes the first raid a walkover. Because of this I say don't implement it at all. People will level at different speeds for many reasons. Just because they are behind the curve does NOT mean they want their first raid to be a walkover.
I have heard that the reason .5 was introduced was to allow some players to "catch up". That should not be necessary in classic as it's not going anywhere. Let the slow players experience the same game as the fast movers please.
I have heard that the reason .5 was introduced was to allow some players to "catch up". That should not be necessary in classic as it's not going anywhere. Let the slow players experience the same game as the fast movers please.
01/08/2018 03:04 PMPosted by NynetI have heard that the .5 gear makes the first raid a walkover. Because of this I say don't implement it at all. People will level at different speeds for many reasons. Just because they are behind the curve does NOT mean they want their first raid to be a walkover.
I have heard that the reason .5 was introduced was to allow some players to "catch up". That should not be necessary in classic as it's not going anywhere. Let the slow players experience the same game as the fast movers please.
The time it takes to get that gear is quite a long investment. Plus MC is really not that hard at all. It's not something that you'd need to cut content from the game for, tuning would be a much better option and not releasing on the 1.12 patch.
01/08/2018 03:04 PMPosted by NynetI have heard that the .5 gear makes the first raid a walkover. Because of this I say don't implement it at all. People will level at different speeds for many reasons. Just because they are behind the curve does NOT mean they want their first raid to be a walkover.
I have heard that the reason .5 was introduced was to allow some players to "catch up". That should not be necessary in classic as it's not going anywhere. Let the slow players experience the same game as the fast movers please.
You have "heard" wrong, and/or you are merely trying to get a reaction in here. (I also "heard" that Hillary had a 90%+ chance to be elected)
I heard that Molten Core gear makes acquiring the .5 set a walkover. Therefore Molten Core should be taken out of the game, furthermore...
edit: I have heard that some people come into the classic forum with the sole purpose of stirring things up. Yeah, gonna go with my troll theory.
I have no issues with D1 and D2 being available at launch,this is coming from someone who did half the chain in vanilla.
1.Getting all the pieces relies on getting lucky or a long grind on its own.One that the average player won't have the time to complete anymore. My druid friend took 57 runs to get their pants from strathholme.
2.It's a massive time sink,helping my friend grind up blues to DE and then chain summoning the wrong elementals in silithus was annoying as hell.
3. The gear itself is not that amazing, it's ok but im sure theres plenty of better pieces out there that require less effort.
4. The drops from the summoned bosses are better than comparable pieces but the process getting there is not something most people will bother with.Yes other people can summon them but their loot tables are fairly substantial.
I don't think it's an issue as the benefits don't equal the effort.
1.Getting all the pieces relies on getting lucky or a long grind on its own.One that the average player won't have the time to complete anymore. My druid friend took 57 runs to get their pants from strathholme.
2.It's a massive time sink,helping my friend grind up blues to DE and then chain summoning the wrong elementals in silithus was annoying as hell.
3. The gear itself is not that amazing, it's ok but im sure theres plenty of better pieces out there that require less effort.
4. The drops from the summoned bosses are better than comparable pieces but the process getting there is not something most people will bother with.Yes other people can summon them but their loot tables are fairly substantial.
I don't think it's an issue as the benefits don't equal the effort.
D2 sets were very PvP oriented.
Item and class tuning should be 1.12.1. Earlier itemization is kinda lame. Too much wasted stats that dont have any sense.
Plus in 1.12.1 you get to play a hybrid class as you wish to because all of the polishes classes had and itemization changes. And i've heard people want to pley their hybrids :)
Item and class tuning should be 1.12.1. Earlier itemization is kinda lame. Too much wasted stats that dont have any sense.
Plus in 1.12.1 you get to play a hybrid class as you wish to because all of the polishes classes had and itemization changes. And i've heard people want to pley their hybrids :)
If you look at the stats, you'll notice that Dungeon Set 2 isn't even a raiding set--it's a PvP set. It's most obvious when you look at the Hybrid Dungeon 2 sets alongside the Rank 10 PvP set. They are very similar with the stats that they offer and the bonuses don't really apply to PvE either...
This stuff was designed for the people who wanted solid PvP gear without having to put up with the enormous time sink of Rank 13 or Tier 2.5 from AQ40.
I remember wanting some of this gear for pvp. iirc it was kinda just nice quality jack of all trades gear. The warrior stuff had some tanking stats and some crit and agi for example. I don't see anything wrong with having it in from the start for a balance perspective. It actually was moderately challenging to get. In the grand scheme of things raiding or honor grind will net you better gear more easily and probably more quickly, so i don't think hardcore raiders or pvpers will even bother with it anyway other than for the sake of collecting gear. It's more just another avenue for progression that ultimately doesn't really impact the other areas.
That being said, the one issue I could see is putting too many things in at the start too fast. One of the problem I have with current WoW is that there is just too much to do. It seems like a daunting task to jump in now. I look forward to the more manageable scope of classic. I think it would be healthy to drip feed content to avoid overloading people with choice right off the bat, and to keep having something to look forward to six months or a year after launch
01/09/2018 02:27 AMPosted by ProxyThat being said, the one issue I could see is putting too many things in at the start too fast. One of the problem I have with current WoW is that there is just too much to do. It seems like a daunting task to jump in now. I look forward to the more manageable scope of classic. I think it would be healthy to drip feed content to avoid overloading people with choice right off the bat, and to keep having something to look forward to six months or a year after launch
A hallway of content on rails is one of the big things people want to get away from. There is no such thing as "too much to do". Having more options is never a bad thing.