Can someone explain to me all why Classic Ret builds take Improved Seal of the Crusader? We all use Seal of Command, so I dont understand why I would take 3 wasted points of using a Seal I dont even use. Due to the limit debuff on bosses, nobody is going to want any Ret paladin debuff on it (assuming they even take ret paladins to begin with). Therefore wouldnt we use Seal of Command since it wouldnt cause a debuff? Even if the other ret talents arent totally pve worthy, id rather take some pvp talents in there where i could possibly have some use rather than use Improved Seal of the Crusader where I dont even use the seal to begin with. Somebody please explain this to me
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…Because improved holy damage for command procs and judgements is also good in pvp?
If you don’t want to take it then dont.
Parry is good in pvp instead if you want something else. If you parry an attack then you instantly counter it. A good combination is taking reckoning and that extra 5% parry. You can get a lot of counter attacks in especially against ferals and rogues.
Parry is useless, u need hit target. There is a lot useless talent like eye for eye.
When you parry you perform an instant counter attack. Base parry is 5%, get an additional 5% from talents. So in other words every 10th hit you perform that instant counter attack. That is not useless versus fast hitting classes like rogues and ferals.
Eye for an Eye is not useless. It has very limited use in pve but it’s a great pvp talent. Especially being trained as much as we can be.
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Playing classic IMO is all about PvP. The classes that are going to crit you are also gearing for more crit…why not take a talent that negates that? Most of my played time was as a Paladin in Classic and I got Grand Marshall…trust me when I say as a Paladin you are not there to solely DPS or heal but do a combo of both when the time is right. Utility is what makes a Paladin viable.
So when the stars align in the deep end of the universe once every 20 million years?
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Actually if you pvp as a pally and play the class correctly you will be doing a ton of support; it was what determines if your team will win a BG or not. I pvp a lot in vanilla like the other guy; though I only got as far as Knight-Captain; while I fight I always keep an eye out to BoP our mages, freedom druids(running flags), or through flash heals when needed. All the while just auto attacking my way, judging, and playing Seal of Casino.
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You are correct, Seal of the Crusader is not needed for Ret in PvE or PvP. Here is the ultimate 20/0/31 ret/holy pvp and pve build:
classic(dot)wowhead(dot)com/talent-calc/paladin/5050312202–552000512023051
Efficient healing in pvp and pve + good damage. This build got me all the way through vanilla pvp and allowed me to heal in any raid as holy without switching specs. I agree with Toushin, a Classic ret paladin who does not heal and support their allies is a bad ret paladin.
It all breaks down to PvE DPS, and with a high speed 2 hander and a lot of +spell damage SoR is FAR better for DPS than SoC.
Look up spelladin on youtube, Judgement is a guy pushing this build and its crazy to watch but its working for him. By no means is it the gear you expect to do damage but hes cranking it out.
Imp crusader is only a few of talent improve your dps, a lot useless talent like eye and improve ret aura does nothing. As for seals, Seal of command and righteousness has same spell co-efficiency, in fact judgement of command hits harder than untalented judgement of righteousness even on unstunned target
Eye of eye only reflect on spell crit, how many classic class relay on spell crit damage?? I think ele and mage that is it, even let’s say you got hit by 2k chain lightning and you survived, eye only reflect a wooping 600 damage… It is completely useless pve and has 5% chance of been useful in pvp
There sure isn’t a shortage of Elemental Shamans and Mages about. If you don’t take Eye for an eye in pvp you’re putting yourself at a disadvantage. By all means get trained and do no damage back to them. The only counter to being trained is to out heal the damage and out last their mana. I’d rather be able to deal damage back to the enemy then do none at all.
Going off of 14 year old memories, Eye for an eye is able to crit. Part of the reason, aside from bosses, for the 50% paladin hp limit.
Cleanse counters dots, Eye for an eye helps counter direct spell damage. PvP requires less spell hit, most people will be stacking crit. You aren’t always going to have team mates able to help you. Lets face it, any argument can be ended by saying " we’ll a teammate can…"
You will be trained. You will have to out last an opponent. If you don’t use all the tools available to you then you’re just a gimped warrior. Play a paladin, use the tool kit or don’t, it’s your choice.
I haven’t seen an ele shaman entire time I was leveling, most mage is frost not fire. The chance and value of this talent is very small like benediction 40 to 50 mana of a judgement combo.
Each their own i guess.
PoM Pyro has a reputation in pvp for a reason. Once battlegrounds come out, you will see a lot of fire mages running around.
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YOU DO NOT WANT A FAST 2 HANDER. HASTE MEANS NOTHING IN WOW CLASSIC.
A ret “spelladin”? Seriously?
Who is making these silly “spelladin” videos for ret pvp?
For ret in pvp, it all breaks down to
- Healing - mostly flash of light.
- Support - blessings, especially freedom, seals, judgements, stun.
- Survivability - you are the most survivable class in the game in pvp.
- DPS - wack things until they fall down.
You will not overpower most other classes with your damage but you will outlast them. A ret paladin who does not heal and support their allies is a bad ret paladin.
Here is the ultimate ret paladin dps/healing and support spec for pvp:
classic(dot)wowhead(dot)com/talent-calc/paladin/5050312202–552000512023051
Good healing with good damage.
Blackweb did you look up the guy? Did you see what im talking about or did you just go with years of bad information and think it works?
STR and AP builds- Yes you want a slow weapon and SoCom
+Spell damage- You want as fast of a weapon as possible and SoR.
this is a new style of build that was never really pushed in vanilla and is being used now.
Breakdown of the spec
Spec in use in blues in MC
BIS dummy with all possible buffs showing the possiblity. Never seen a AP ret hit these numbers.
This isn’t a PvP spec, this is a pure numbers PvE damage idea. Classic wow is a strange beast
LMAO,
In PvP most of the Spelladins buffs would be purged away including your blessing of freedom while you get kited hard and KEKed at the same time.
I only see 20 holy talent points used there.
I did not get my ideas from any video or guide. I have not read any Classic Paladin guide or watched any Classic Paladin video. My ideas on the Classic/Vanilla Paladin come from my own hard-won experience with Paladins from Vanilla through BFA. I tried every combination of specs in Vanilla in pvp and pve. I know what I am talking about when it comes to ret.