I’ll get some videos posted to this thread. Speed clear runs by Salad Bakers and Progress doesn’t do it justice.
Except they’re relying on dodgy memories from over a decade ago. I can only remember 1 specific threat number from that long ago. I can’t even remember how much TPS I was doing in kara let alone if I was playing 2 years earlier in MC.
I guess I was asking a trick question, Neither is right only the actual numbers blizz have stashed away are correct.
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At the end of the day we all just want it home cooked the way momma used to make it except everyone’s momma made it differently.
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I used it all the way through Sunwell. US 59th and world 133rd on Kil’jaeden, Pre-nerf Muru, etc.
What’s funny about TF is it is equally as good on a Rogue as a Warrior, and probably has a better uptime on the debuff. Warriors just fill multiple roles.
Yeah. I used to have War Drums priority during Brutallus progression for threat with TF. We had 2 Rogues with Warglaives doing a hair over 2100 DPS or so and I still held threat. It was a supreme weapon.
As I recall it has some built in threat initially which made it an awesome tank weapon. That was removed in BC.
They nerfed the proc chance and threat generated on the proc if I remember correctly.
Right it was basically a god tank weapon, aoe attacks with extra threat gen.
Your tank getting it made him instantly poachable in vanilla.
and it was a built in demo shout on 5 targets. Everyone forgets that part.
I wonder how many of the people claiming threat was so easy in raids post 1.11 also had tanks with a TF?
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They had to nerf some mechanics to the ground to be negligible so people could get through it.
Your MT not getting it made him an OT as soon as you poached one with a TF. That weapon being the best for threat by a mile is terrible game design that puts progression on the mercy of RNG and ability to poach.
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The thing about this issue is that if you nerf warrior threat, you would have to nerf druid threat as well. Otherwise, you create a new meta where druids are used over warriors due to granting the entire raid a mich higher threat ceiling, which would more than make up for costing healers more mana. Especially if they carry around Crowd Pummelers.
And once you nerf druids to prevent them from overtaking warriors stuck with pre 1.12 threat (aka not a vanilla meta) the cats out of the bag, and suddenly every pro-changer has a footing to ask for their own balance changes. It’ll never end.
EDIT: Phone typos are fun.
And who are these inexperienced leaders going to be? The guilds are already formed, and guilds will form around players with private server raid experience. Those who are forming based around players without the experience will fail, due to having their best talent siphoned off to better guilds.
Classic raiding is easy, btw. Stop trying sell the myth of raiding being hard aside from Naxx which was more of a consumable grind than anything.
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True. But as long as the feel of the game is kept. On private servers few people actually progression raided. In fact they were probably too young to know what the overall experience was like. They have absolutley no feel for what the game was throughout its lifespan. No feel vs a good feel with some inaccuracies? I’ll take the person with a pulse for the game.
I’m not sure you realize how much this supports my post. It adheres to near exactly what my original post said. You’re claiming “Classic raiders will fail if they don’t form around experienced players.”
You’re using a much harsher tone than I used. I said, if not carried by pserver experienced players, they would see a “challenge” whereas you’re using the word “fail”.
Which begs the question… if classic raiding is so “easy” why are they “failing”?
Just so there’s no confusion on where I stand. I want classic raiding to be as challenging as possible and encourage Blizzard to do what they need to do to make this happen. i.e. 8 max debuff, 1.11 threat, progressive itemization, etc.
Quite frankly, I would prefer Blizzard start with patch 1.1 and progress to 1.12. But I guess that’s idealistic.
P.S. Ironside, would you mind sharing your 2005 classic and recent private server MC experience? Guild, server, how many guilds before yours took Rag, and were you the raid leader, officer or member?
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Maintaining a roster of reliable people.
Farming before raid.
Keeping everybody happy/maintaining morale.
Finding people in the first place.
These are the true raid mechanics.
One thing I left out was dealing with frequent, random d/c’s, but that’s because internet technology has improved greatly over time.
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classic went up to clearing Nefarian in 05 and not even seeing the AQ content because I graduated HS and preferred getting piss drunk every night to playing video games.
started playing private servers in 2012, spent most of the time with GRIZZLY playing warlocks through SC2 and beyond, not including the most recent launch led by AK. Also played with Insidious on Emerald Dream on my hunter, and Rampage on my warrior. Both through their progression phases.
Couldn’t tell you how many guilds took Rag on ED, because that was 7+ years ago at this point, but I saw and killed the first rag/nefarian on SC2/every server I’ve been with the original GRIZZLY on as a core raider.
Was a class leader in Rampage for fury warriors, not even close to core member in Insidious (knew the GM from prior servers and helped their raid out on my pvp alt), and GRIZZLY never had class leaders because their role is superfluous when everyone pulls their own weight
reason for my original post:
I’ve seen private servers with much smaller, more “classic” population and seen poaching on mind boggling levels. Guilds not formed around strong experienced leadership will often lose their star players to these guilds, especially as further tiers of raiding are opened up.
with regards to your quote “I want classic raiding to be as challenging as possible and encourage Blizzard to do what they need to do to make this happen. i.e. 8 max debuff, 1.11 threat, progressive itemization, etc.”
You’ll never get it–unless you go in without any consumables/world buffs, you’ll never experience a difficult raid until the later parts of AQ40 (trash packs) and Naxx where consumables became a significant factor in encounter design (Loatheb being the most obvious).
8 max debuffs, “1.11 threat”, and progressive itemization are myths that were sold to you by Nostalrius to pump up its street cred as “authentic”. They don’t change anything significantly.
The thing that changed the most in past years has been guilds attitudes towards consumable usage. that’s what most people just dont understand.
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I think I will start with In My Opinion on this so that nobody can claim I am confusing my own thoughts with actual fact, but… to me, it would seem that anyone basing their experience on Private Server is automatically wrong. Private servers are not sanctioned by Blizzard and are hacks by their very nature. So however they managed to get them running, they are not running the exact same code as the original servers. Again, this is just my thought. Comparing ANYTHING that happens on private servers to the original content just isn’t reliable data. If I am wrong, please explain, so that I will be better informed.
what code do you think is different?
It actually still remained good afterword for paladin tanks in TBC one of our tanks was still using it.
As I remember he brought multiple shields because paladin block chance was so absurdly high that they would actually break mid fight on certain trash packs. As I recall this was also happening in AQ too…
Huh, I forgot we had a paladin tank till now; he was actually really good.