Classic is nerfed on beta

[Savax-feathermoon (Savax)]

Blizzard nerfed everything in the game because Ion got jealous not enough people were seeing his raid designs. Blizzard thought everyone should be funneled into the raids.

[Kyocere-dalaran]

Yes, I was unaware 1.12 was this heavily nerfed, had I known I would be been upset with the rest, and as you can clearly see, many other posters were unaware how nerfed it was also.
No need to be a dick about it.

Imagine being upset about something you clearly didn’t play or know anything about. The internet exists and you could of easily looked up the version or watched some videos to know. Still not seeing how this is a cop out of the fault of Blizz when it has been stated this will be the version for months now.

[Tarregor-dalaran (Tarregor)]

so you’re not doing it for fun, huh

[Kerpz-moon-guard]

where have you been the last month

[Urskrah-zuljin]

Drek and Vann aren’t aggro linked to the npcs around them. … And there’s no stacking buff from those towers/bunkers either.

Sounds like that’s just bugs. Maybe when those get fixed the battles will at least take longer than an hour. I hope Blizzard can see that this isn’t the grand scale battle that Alterac Valley is supposed to be and ultimately decide on a different version.

Being this close to release I doubt it, though.

This weekend is basically our last chance to get it across and most of us are just getting baited with access rather than being able to test it.

[Polizia-barthilas]

Blizzard nerfed everything in the game because Ion got jealous not enough people were seeing his raid designs. Blizzard thought everyone should be funneled into the raids.

Blizzard hates classic, it’s written all over their face when they have to talk about it.
I always knew they would be looking for ways to water it down for the masses.

We’re getting a classic themepark to keep bored retailers subscribed and a cash grab to sucker in old players for a while.

Delivering the proper experience was never their objective.

[Ozzyprime-kiljaeden]

Honestly it’s sounding like you’re the one who hates classic, the more and more you post.

[Theodras-stormrage]

1.12 is a joke.
Starting the game on 1.12 is a joke.

I don’t think we necessarily need every single iteration of every patch in vanilla, but it’s clear started the game fresh with 1.12 is also a not the answer.

I don’t see the problem with classes/items etc being reworked to match proper progression.

Blizzard reworks classes constantly on live and it is no issue…

Don’t play it. Find yourself a nice empty private server and enjoy life. Be happy.

[Mogar-stormrage (Mogar)]

Drek and Vann aren’t aggro linked to the npcs around them. … And there’s no stacking buff from those towers/bunkers either.

Sounds like that’s just bugs. Maybe when those get fixed the battles will at least take longer than an hour. I hope Blizzard can see that this isn’t the grand scale battle that Alterac Valley is supposed to be and ultimately decide on a different version.

Being this close to release I doubt it, though.

This weekend is basically our last chance to get it across and most of us are just getting baited with access rather than being able to test it.

Those aren’t bugs. They didn’t exist in Vanilla. In 2.3.0 they linked the aggros. And 2.4.0 was the stacking buff. 1.12 AV is by far the easiest to zerg in the game’s history.

[Kindwolf-emerald-dream]

Awesome change, no silly long BGs.

[Controled-thrall]

It’s a stealth nerf since the majority of players will have no clue and be unaware that this is not real classic

This pretty much sums up everything wrong with this thread. 1.12AV was in-fact part of Vanilla, even if people don’t like it. It was not nerfed or changed, the AV in Classic is what players actually had at one point in Vanilla.

Claiming its a “cop out” is just plain ignorant.

Yes, I was unaware 1.12 was this heavily nerfed, had I known I would be been upset with the rest, and as you can clearly see, many other posters were unaware how nerfed it was also.
No need to be a dick about it

Here’s the issue, when you say nerfed, what does that even mean? The amount of changes that happened to AV over the course of Vanilla was massive. The “nerfs” that you are referring to could of happened anywhere between patches 1.6 to 1.12. The changes did not happen overnight. Half of the patches in vanilla had wildly different AVs.

So what are we suppose to do? Blizzard stated going into Classic that they wanted to create the Vanilla or Classic experience. But that experience is different for everybody. Somebody that started playing Vanilla in patch 1.8 never would of experienced the original 1.5 AV. But is their “classic experience” any less than somebody who did play in 1.5?

Patch 1.12 is the most completed version of Vanilla. It has not been nerfed or changed, if anything the beta has shown that our memory of vanilla is incorrect and things were wildly different than how we thought they were.

Blizzard hates classic, it’s written all over their face when they have to talk about it.
I always knew they would be looking for ways to water it down for

Blizzard has done a phenomenal job with Classic. The developers actively listen to the community, and even interact with them on the beta. They have done their best to make it as accurate as they can.

Just because you are angry about a very specific part of Classic doesn’t make the rest of it bad.

[Caelle-exodar (Caelle)]

You are two months out from launch, yall lost this argument a long time ago. They aren’t gonna start redoing it now.

( and for the record Im someone that wanted patch progression)

[Razaell-sargeras (Razaell)]

Responding like a condescending douche and lecturing us about an adult reaction is pretty hilarious.

This is laziness at best. The alternative is incompetence

[Argorwal-ysera (Argorwal)]

Its 1.12 vanilla so it gets 1.12 AV.

Thats really all there is to it.

[Eloraell-moon-guard]

@Kaivax

First and foremost, we’re planning to use the 1.12 version of Alterac Valley. For many parts of the game like this, we’re picking an original WoW patch that gives us the most clarity for WoW: Classic, and 1.12 is that patch.

In Alterac Valley, that puts us before the introduction of reinforcements. It puts us before the removal of all of the Commanders and Lieutenants. The only win conditions are the killing of Drek’thar in Frostwolf Keep or Vanndar Stormpike in Dun Baldar.

Old news is old.

[Polizia-barthilas]

@Eloraell-moon-guard

@Kaivax

First and foremost, we’re planning to use the 1.12 version of Alterac Valley. For many parts of the game like this, we’re picking an original WoW patch that gives us the most clarity for WoW: Classic, and 1.12 is that patch.

In Alterac Valley, that puts us before the introduction of reinforcements. It puts us before the removal of all of the Commanders and Lieutenants. The only win conditions are the killing of Drek’thar in Frostwolf Keep or Vanndar Stormpike in Dun Baldar.

Old news is old.

No where here does it say it removed all the npcs from the map and landmines from bunkers, nor does it mention how heavily nerfed archer damage is.

[Cyouskin-stormreaver (Cyous)]

This is laziness at best. The alternative is incompetence

Being able to playtest the battleground is different from simply reading the plans.

AV, at this point, doesn’t feel epic. Previous versions of AV (pre-1.12) were intense.

AV should be a PVPVE battleground. As it stands, it’s currently worse than Ashran on launch (my opinion).

[Enshui-sisters-of-elune]

I mean TBH the nerfs primarily happened in 1.11, when vast quantities of NPCs in the bases and roads were completely removed.
Any version prior to 1.11 was honestly closer to the average available version of Vanilla AV than the 169 days of 1.11’s version of AV was in the game, because prior to 1.11 there were a large quantity of guards on the map, and 1.5 - 1.10 AV lasted for 377 days.
AV with guards and patrols: 69.05% of Vanilla’s lifespan.
AV without guards and patrols: 30.95% of Vanilla’s lifespan.

[Urskrah-zuljin]

Anything pre-1.8 would be fine. I would just like the whole map to be available.

Classic is about restoring the missing “World” of Warcraft that got wiped away with the Cataclysm. Why draw the line at the eastern and western portions of Alterac Valley?

[Eloraell-moon-guard]

No where here does it say it removed all the npcs from the map and mines, nor does it mention how heavily nerfed archer damage is.

Since you need it spoon fed to know what was in 1.12.

[Patch 1.5.0]

• Added.

[Patch 1.6.0]

• Each team will now gain additional bonus honor if their towers are not destroyed by the end of the map. The more towers that remained intact, the more honor received.
• If you manage to keep your faction’s Captain alive for the duration of a battle, you will be granted extra points upon victory.
• Several Alterac Valley vendor items are now bind on acquire.
• The respawn time for tower guards (assuming the tower has not been destroyed) has been greatly increased.
• The minimum reputation needed to send a cavalry charge has been reduced to Honored.
• Players of Revered or higher reputation may now call offensive air strikes if they have managed to rescue their respective Wing Commanders.
• Alterac Valley’s guard spawn is now controlled via a more intuitive mechanism. Please check the Officer Supply vendors for your faction to read up on the changes.
• Fixed a bug that sometimes prevented the Alliance team from receiving honor for destroying towers.
• Fixed a bug that was not awarding Horde credit for owning a mine at the end of a game.

[Patch 1.7.0]

• Fixed a bug that would cause players to stand up when a turnin was made in Alterac Valley.

[Patch 1.8.0]

• In order to keep teams in Alterac Valley more numerically balanced, players will now enter Alterac Valley on a one-for-one basis (i.e. if there are 30 players in the battleground for each side with 10 players in the Alliance queue and 2 players in the Horde queue, only two players from each team will be added, bringing the total to 32 per side).
• The minimum number of players required to start a battle in Alterac Valley has been lowered to 20 (the maximum is still 40).
• Points for completing the map and winning have been slightly decreased.
• Graveyards and graveyard capture points are now at different locations. The banners players must interact with in order to capture a graveyard have been distanced from each other somewhat in order to alleviate “graveyard zerging” and make graveyards more meaningful to both defense and offense.
• Several terrain changes were made to fix some geometry exploits as well as to adjust for the new graveyard mechanic.
• Iceblood Graveyard has been fortified.
• The Frostwolf Relief Hut now has appropriate guards.
• A great avalanche has closed off both the eastern and western segments of Alterac Valley. This has displaced the Syndicate, the Wildpaw Gnolls, and many of the Winterax Trolls.
• Due to the avalanche, Korrak the Bloodrager and a small band of surviving Trolls have made the Snowfall Graveyard their new home. Players will find that Snowfall is now under Korrak’s control and they must defeat Korrak and his Troll guards if they wish to take Snowfall.
• NPC difficulty has been scaled down. All NPCs have had their power reduced by 15-30%.
• There is now a portcullis at the end of each of the entrance tunnels inside Alterac Valley. They will rise two minutes into the battle.

[Patch 1.10]

• Flavor items from player loot in Alterac Valley will now stack and can be sold for a small value. These are items like Documents from Boomstick Imports, Worn Running Shoes, etc.
• Players in Alterac Valley will no longer drop Darkspear Troll Mojo, Dwarf Spines, Forsaken Hearts, Human Bone Chips, Orc Teeth, etc. and the quests have been removed for these items. Instead when a player is slain in Alterac Valley, any enemies that were in that player’s threat list will gain 1 point of reputation with either the Frostwolf or Stormpike factions.
• Frostwolf and Stormpike faction will now be gained by killing players of the opposite faction. Reputation will no longer be split up among the entire raid group.
• Tower Banners in Alterac Valley can no longer be used through walls.
• Korrak the Bloodrager and his band of trolls have packed up their bags and left Alterac Valley for greener pastures.

[Patch 1.11]

• Most of the NPC guard units have been removed.
• Players now drop more quest items.
• Creatures that remain in Alterac Valley have had their hit points reduced.
• The buff that is periodically cast by each faction’s Captain has been changed to a flat 20% hit point buff.
• Upgrading troops through armor scrap turn-ins will also now result in your team’s General enabling a periodic buff to your melee and spell damage.