Oh, I wasn’t suggesting adding those changes… I was just ‘thinking aloud’.
I too would prefer earlier versions than 1.12, but ultimately its not the challenge that was great, but the totality of the experience. And the challenge aspect of that totality would be short lived, brief enough that - and it honestly pains me to say it, I hate this conclusion - it makes little difference which version you use for dungeons. Unless its simply that you find the mechanics more fun. Then its a fun issue, not a nerf issue.
AV, though, is another animal entirely. They’ve given us the disney version of what once was the best pvp war game ever made. Da hell.
Blizzard has already stated their definitive stance on Classic.
Your “#nochanges” statement is not the basis of development for Blizzard’s Classic project. You make it sound like your balancing suggestions are inline with what Blizzard has recently stated about their goals for the project.
You have to hope for Classic+ if you want balancing that existed prior to 1.12. There’s a month and a half to release; Classic is what it is.
Exactly. People didn’t like it. The forums were packed with people whining about changes they’d like to see. Horde paladins. Flying. Class balance. New gear. More to do each day (daily quests).
Request granted.
I think that when people want “classic,” what they want is a re-creation of the feeling they had when they first played WoW. That’s where the fallacy lies, however. That’s called nostalgia.
When a lot of people start grinding classic WoW, they’re going to realize that the modern game is much better, and that:
Well, for one, everyone has a pet change that they think is more important than making ZF mobs elite again. So of course they need to have their change too. And then the next guy, and the next guy and the next guy.
Blizzard has removed the decision making out of the process, by making a single decision, to use 1.12. There may be occasional deviations, but that’s Blizzard’s choice on a case by case basis, and with the knowledge that there should be as few changes as possible.
Because what you’re suggesting requires class rebalancing. And at that point we’re seeing a whole different game.
Are you their spokesperson? Did the Private server scene ask for what you’re suggesting? Telling us not to speak for Blizzard and then passing yourself off as the official spokesperson for the Nostalrius players is quite pompous.
Part of the problem is that reverting the nerfs wont actually have a significant impact on how hard the dungeons are. If you consider them faceroll in 1.12, they’ll be faceroll with the nerfs reverted.
The reality is that Vanilla WoW, even at 1.1, was never a difficult game. It was specifically designed that way to appeal to a more casual crowd.
The thing is that back then we didn’t have 15 years worth of perfecting the game, YouTube video guides, and dozens of Google results for how to spec/build your character for the average player who doesn’t know the first thing about theorycrafting.
Every little bit that aids to the challenge is still better then nothing. Perhaps many small reverts will, all in all, have an impact towards the wish of my initial post!
We didn’t have 15 years of those things, but we had plenty of those things. Newbs didn’t bother with them, but on the second or third alt they did.
I don’t have a huge problem with it being the nerfed version (1.12). The only thing I just don’t agree with at all is the idea that people are just so much better now. That just does not fit with what I actually see. There were fanatical obsessives back then just like there are now. Pushing buttons is not a skill that takes a lifetime to master.
At the top end there are gonna be guilds that have spent 15 years killing Golemagg on private servers, and for them yeah, it does matter. But for me, sorta been drifting in and out of retail for 15 years and haven’t touched a private server, I doubt it’s going to be much different than creating a new alt on version 1.12 would have been. Since I never actually did that, I don’t know what it would have been like. If I find out that tanks can hold aggro on infinite mobs forever in normal gear, I’ll be pretty disappointed. That to me is when dungeons became boring jokes.
I’m not saying that we didn’t have people who knew what they were doing back then. As I’ve said in many other threads: min/maxing and theorycrafting weren’t new concepts in 2004.
However I was talking about the average player, who is just as bad today as they were in 2004 but didn’t have quite the wealth of information we have now when WoW was brand new and even the top players were still figuring it out.
Going back to 1.1 wouldn’t have the effect people think it would. Sunder Armour/Battle Shout/Demo Shout wasn’t buffed in terms of their threat output, basic armour to DR formulas weren’t buffed.
If your Warrior can pull entire packs and be fine in 1.12, they could have done it in 1.1 as well. That’s my whole point: Reverting the nerfs would not be this grand return to super difficult dungeons that people remember having in Vanilla.
At which point it sadly becomes more effort than its worth.
OP, that is the way it should have been done (original difficulty of individual vanilla elements), and Brack even wanted us to discuss what versions of individual vanilla content we thought best. But they seemingly chose to ignore everything. So, there it is.
One could hope that they are actually reverting Scholo/Strath, etc to their pre-nerf states, given the closed beta will not be testing that stuff beyond the internal testing. Would be a great surprise if they did, and would add longevity to the game. They could also do so with AV and surprise us that way as well.
Battle Shout is a separate issue, I don’t think hardly anybody had a clue you could use it to hold aggro. When my casual guild used it to oneshot Nefarian, I mentioned it to a friend in a more hardcore guild. He said they had no clue you could do that and had spent weeks wiping on phase 1 Nef trying to keep the mobs under control.
It was a fundamental assumption in vanilla that a tank couldn’t hold large numbers of mobs. As a healer, you were told “this is an AoE situation” and you would be asked to shield the mages/locks. I see that the Onyxia guide on wowwiki still talks about how hard it is to keep the whelps under control. Had people known all they had to do was have a tank stand in the middle of the room spamming battle shout, it wouldn’t say that.
People will know now and as a result I favor nerfing it hard (as it was in 2.0.1), especially the part where you get more threat for having pets but really the whole thing. Refreshing a party buff is a silly way to gain threat. If that is considered to be a “change”, so be it. It is not a change to anything but a borderline exploit that was little used back then.
Other than that, I can see your point, and I honestly don’t remember the early dungeons well enough to know whether they theoretically could have been trivialized at the appropriate level. However, I see the long list of buffs to every class in all the patch notes from 1.6-1.12 and I can’t see that making NO difference.
I am pretty sure Stratholme couldn’t have, so I’ll be pretty upset if it ends up a joke. In early 2005, nobody would run it with less than 10 people. By mid 2006, I found a post in our guild’s archives where I told people they didn’t need a main tank.
![:slight_smile:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/slight_smile.png?v=6" ":slight_smile:")