Griefing is fundamental to the WoW experience
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Then this game is not for them. Let them go play Fortnite, Dota2, LoL. Your suppose to go out in the world and create stuff. Go, start a little war somewhereā¦ I dont get why you would play an MMO and not participate in the MMO part of the game. lol
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On a pvp server if it can be resolved with pvpā¦ its not against ToS. I mean, there are some things that just are super annoying. Like camping, and just following someone around the world to make their experience terrible. That I am against.
you can call it griefing but nobody is getting punished for doing these things on a PvP server 
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It is up to the player to decide what they want to do. A game lays out a system. A system is designed to do what it does. This one has people raid logging. It isnāt the players fault.
If the player is finding raid logging to be fun, then that part of the game is for them.
Your take is exclusionary. You do not get to decide if the game is for someone based on them not participating in a specific aspect of the game. an MMO is a shared world. This is not to be confused with you must play in the open world. Especially when the best rewards are instanced.
A great example currently would be players who are doing PvP rank up. They basically donāt participate in the rest of the game because of the massive time requirement that is soul sucking and health deteriorating. That does not mean the game is not for them because they arenāt out in the open world.
The game is for people who want to play it. There can be positive changes made to the game as it is very old and for the most part figured out. Meaningful changes with the goal of making the game better are welcomed by me. I will always worry they take a step too far, but I hope for the best.
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The sweat lords who were hitting rank 14 in classic were moist enough that they were ranking twenty hours a week and still doing all the raids. No idea if the current batch as stuck to their chairs as that crew.
I get what you are saying. But there are plenty of people that like raiding, pvpān (be it world pvp or bgs). If you raid log you arent contributing to the rest of the game that is fun. Why roll on a PvP server if all you want to do is raid log? Stick to a PvE server.
I dont know the way the game was played back in vanilla will never be duplicated again. The player base of today dont play games like that. Like you said people want rewards and progressing their charactersā¦ not to go out in world and āpwn newbsā or bgs. But to raid log and or go afk in town. Thats just a sad way to play the game in my honest opinion.
No I mean classic wrath, tbc, and vanilla
Queue is shorter if you pick random classic dungeon but yea that sounds right. Tbf comparable to wait times in classic servers.
As for getting removed, I donāt believe thatās the full story. You said 4 people died in a leveling dungeon, you did everything right, and got removed? Thereās more to this story.
Been my experience over vanilla classic, tbc classic, wrath classic, both from guilds and just observing trade chat.
Please though, show me the large classic populations that donāt treat retail/retail players like garbage.
IK, but I wanted that dungeon.
Nothing more to the story. Unless, they didnāt like me CCing the casters they kept ignoring. Some (not all) people just donāt like it when 1 person survives, I guess.
It must be easier to kick āthe Huntardā, right?
No one ccs in leveling (poly/hex/trap). They do use stuns and kicks if they have them at their level.
Depends what kind of cc.
Also no one cares about you playing hunter unless youāre shooting barrage or stampede and pulling a ton.
I usually donāt (not in Retail, anyway), but they LITERALLY kept ignoring casting mobs hitting the non-Tank, so I kept saving the healer.
Freezing trap.
Apparently, BOTH groups (particularly the second one) did.
Nope. This is why the first group accused me of being āAFKā because I WASNāT pulling, for the Tank/the group and only attacked what was pulled.
BTW, nobody said anything in either run EXCEPT the first one which was to tell the group that Iām apparently AFKā¦
If youāre being truthful, then my honest apologies. Sounds like some really bad random groups, in both ability and attitude. If that was your experience, thatās far from the norm but definitely not okay.
Forgive me if Iām rather skeptical.
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I understand.
Iām just saying my attempt, to retuning to Retail was not fun, but I suspected it. The questing world is still fun, though. Ever since VTK entered LFDs, I stopped caring about running dungeons unless with other friends and family.
I (naively) believed MAYBE things changed but no. Theyāre still the same and probably always will be.
I always suggest new players run dungeons with guildies/friends. Never, EVER solo que dungeons. Otherwise, stuff like that happens.
Eh. People are people. This is in any game. People are unpredictable unless in large groups.
People call me crazy for doing most of my m+ pugging. Sometimes awful experiences sometimes fantastic. I do also do them with guildies but yeah.
If you queue with 4 random people, they can be awesome people or terrible people.
I never condone the latter, just acknowledge itās a fact of gaming in any game.
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I do. I just donāt think any one is āworseā than āthe otherā.
Classic and retail both have their charms. Thereās nothing wrong with preferring one over the other.
The main difference Iāve seen is that retail players donāt care which you prefer, outside of typically believing classic players are less skilled. Classic players tend to be very confrontational about retail players or retail in general.
Iām sure some (not all) Classic players have their own experiences (like myself) with Retail players.
Though, Retail players thinking Classic players are āless skilledā is going to lead to āconfrontationā of said Classic players.
I do have my issues with Retail, as well (outside of the players), and everyone should be entitled to their own opinion. Heck, even some (not all) Retail players have their issues with Retail, itself LOL
It is what it is, though.
you say that and then you start talking about nagrand, so definitely not vanilla