Class Tuning Incoming – January 23

Community General Discussion
485

The fact that you tried to use WCL shows you have literally zero idea what you’re even talking about.

WCL has been known to be heavily inaccurate for M+ for literally it’s entire iteration; let’s go to RIO, shall we?

Fury representation above 25s is 1.5%; ret is 6.6%. Above 30, there were 19 recorded timed ret keys to 11 recorded fury keys, which means ret was notably ahead above 25+s and had a minor lead above 30, which is also attributed to the insane utility ret brings. To take things a step further, there are currently 22 rets over 3600 and 12 fury warriors over 3600 world wide.

This gap will grow, which means ret (which was already more than 4x as present in upper level keys) will now take even more priority, and fury will drop further.

If you’re from EU, and know anything about upper play, I’m sure you know who Qrva and Critcake are; go watch their 30 BRH pre buffs and pre leggo, and tell me what the end DPS is for them.

I’ll give you a hint, it’s approx 475 for Qrva and 390ish for Crit.

Again, the game should never be balanced around mistake-ridden play, it should be balanced around the potential output when played at a maximal level; in this regard, ret was ALREADY AHEAD.

I know you’re going to find some way to ignore this, but the numbers are not in your favor and this was not warranted.

And I should clarify these are numbers from YESTERDAY, BEFORE TODAY, and it will be very interesting and downright funny to watch your Pikachu face reaction when 2-3 weeks from now ret is 12-15% of +25s and warrior is 1%, I’m sure you’ll find some way to internally convince yourself that it’s absolutely verifiably acceptable purely because of your bias to your class.

486

Meanwhile Destro locks are hitting like 290 - 310k chaos bolts in pvp. This is just silly Blizzard. Every time I see death results in bg and i see the damage break down it will be 20k - 30k some other class than a destro just off the charts 290k - 310k

Just DF in general is just a meme forsure. Figure it out blizz and hire a pvp lead dev already.

2 Likes
487

Representation doesn’t indicate DPS.
Ret is vastly more popular than a grunt with 2 sticks.
Ret will do 5% more dps overall… deal with it.

Ret is 10 spots below fury for raiding.
But you’re ignoring this?

A war got beat by a ret in dps… it happens.
You wanted fury to get a 22% buff in overall dps to equal Crit’s and Qrva’s numbers? Because that’s how far apart those numbers are.
Cooked take if you want 22% dps increase for fury.

Ret needed buffs for raiding, it got them.

2 Likes
488

Might not be based on a WoW NPC Hero, but they are treating it the same.

489

Yeah, you devolving into deal with it and making up numbers I never asked for shows you’re just incapable of looking past your bias; enjoy being busted until you get inevitably nuked I guess.

And for the record, I think warr should be raised to 8 targets from 5, and our set should cleave (this shouldn’t even have to be asked, why does a tier set not fully function?) and then we’d be fine. And we’d still be below ret, but not so far below we are USELESS outside 1 raid spot.

I stated raid is irrelevant to my argument and rets ST should’ve been buffed, and our ST should not be buffed, about 6 times in this thread prior though so I already know you’ll just ignore it again.

490

Yes 5% overall buff gonna make the spec busted, delusional much?

I don’t care… you can ask for what buffs you want for your spec.

You’re above ret on raiding.

Cleave should be buffed and ST should be buffed when running AOE talents.

You just want aoe buffs for m+, ask for them, go make a thread.

1 Like
491

How quickly your argument about my numbers being wrong devolved into “I don’t care lewl”.

As delusional as the top 1% of raiders who agree with me and are far better than both of us, yup. Ret is busted now, it was not 5%, and ret has NEVER needed a cleave buff, that is laughable and you know it bruh.

As I said, enjoy your few weeks being busted.

492

Means i don’t care, you can ask, idk how much fury needs, so i’ll leave it to you.

You are absolutely delusional if you think raiders consider ret busted when it’s rank 20.

Enjoy losing to rets, i guess.

2 Likes
493

Rank 20 before these omegabuffs, and the difference from 10-20 is quite miniscule at the 99th percentile, but again you don’t understand numbers at all as has already been established. It’s quite universal that ret is now the S tier melee amongst the top 20-30 team members I’ve spoken to today, you’re the only pretending otherwise.

Enjoy trolling from EU and pretending you fail mid 20s because ret is weak brotherman, cheers!

494

Doesn’t seem that minuscule. Maybe it’ll pass Fury in a few weeks, maybe.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/35#sample=7&dataset=99

Sure you did, did you also give a speech and standing ovation?

I’m not the one claiming ret is S tier.

2 Likes
495

You are trolling 110% my friend, will no longer entertain; did link our thread to some places where we all had a good laugh though, so thank you for the entertainment during work.

GL on vault!

497

Are SV hunters supposed to have Barrage?

The ability will not work in combat due to the W.o.W. game showing an error message now when switching to a melee or ranged weapon during combat. Thus, eliminating the macros to switch between weapons to use a ranged weapon for the Barrage ability at the bottom of the SV talent tree.

Would there be a way to replace the talent with another one more appropriate for SV?

Suggestion, maybe a Lone Wolf type of talent so SV can play without a pet?

1 Like
498

Currently Ret is more popular, mainly from the rework. In the past, the grunt with 2 sticks has often been more popular.

At a low level, representation indicates how fun the spec is to play (people enjoy the class enough to do end game group content) and some influence from stuff like reworks and wowhead tier list. At a high level, representation is a measure of success / imbalance (or at least perceived imbalance; they get in groups) if the representation differs from at low level. DPS is an important component of success, but utility is also needed. The value of each piece of utility will vary on dungeon, affixes, and what other specs are in the group, but generally ret trounces fury in this aspect.

Looking at some raider io stats currently (charts were generated last night so no runs from the patch are in these numbers):

unique class population, all mythic+ levels, DPS specs only, timed runs

  • 5.1% fury warriors
  • 12.8% ret paladins
  • ratio ~2.5

class frequency by run, all mythic+ levels, DPS specs only, timed runs

  • 4.8% fury warriors
  • 13.0% ret paladins
  • ratio ~2.7

this is essentially our baseline for how popular ret is compared to fury

unique class population, M+ Level 20 and up, DPS specs only, timed runs

  • 4.6% fury warriors
  • 13.8% ret paladins
  • ratio ~3.0

class frequency by run, M+ Level 20 and up, DPS specs only, timed runs

  • 4.2% fury warriors
  • 12.7% ret paladins
  • ratio ~3.0

notice relatively more ret paladins have completed a +20 or higher key, and same with the number of keys run

unique class population, M+ Level 25 and up, DPS specs only, timed runs

  • 2.4% fury warriors
  • 10.7% ret paladins
  • ratio ~4.5

class frequency by run, M+ Level 25 and up, DPS specs only, timed runs

  • 1.8% fury warriors
  • 8.0% ret paladins
  • ratio ~4.4

at +25 the discrepancy increases

In conclusion I would say ret was already a little bit better than fury in M+. Maybe its DPS is a bit lower, but it has much better utility. Both are above-average though and don’t need buffs (nerf the top 5). If you want to buff ret for raid, it has to be buffs that will only affect raid (such as talents that are not good in M+) or it has to come with nerfs on things that are better in M+ than raid. Worsening M+ balance on the basis of raid DPS stats (which ignore utility) is not acceptable.

I don’t want you to think I’m picking on ret: I play most of the specs, including ret, but I don’t have fun when my success does not come from my own skill. I would enjoy playing ret more without the buffs, and on my other characters I don’t want to feel like the ret is carrying via imbalance (which is how DH currently is).

1 Like
499

This right here? This was dumb. And this needs to be changed. Because I’ve been doing some arena today. And this is awful.

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500

Question
I havent been on yet today to see the changes post patch and currently out of town for work.

When i look at the pvp changes in the patch notes, everything states “in PVP” except the Anger Management notes for fury warriors (15 rage reduces 1 second compared to 20 needed before).

Did they simply forget the write the “in PVP” part or did they put the change into pvp instead of pve part of the notes? Did it change with the patch to give more cdr now in pve aswell? If it works for pve aswell, how much of a difference is it?

1 Like
501

Was PVP only friend, and PVE doesn’t use those abilities this patch due to the new tier so sadly fury was not changed in any way.

2 Likes
502

They forgot to simply write in the pvp part, sounds aboit right =P

Thank you for the clarification!!!
Have a great night

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503

At this point we need new devs that understand what people are more interested in now and not screw up there enjoyment

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504

What didn’t you hear about it one the news?

“WoW player gets standing ovation while giving a speech and saving lives!”

:joy_cat:

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505

I’d like to accurately comment on his behalf:

Never.

Devs:

“iT aRe tOo hArD tO fIx sPeC WiTh nO feEdBaCk. At ThIs tImE wE aRe haPpY with auRa BuFfS (bandaides) AnD pLeAsED wiTh FrOstS bOtToM tIEr peRFoRmAnCe in PvP aNd PvE.

We ArE furThER pLeAsED to AnNouNcE aLL DaMAGe in FrOsTs’ KiT wILl bE CoMPlEteLy tIEd tO DeAtH and DeCaY in OuR nEXt ExPanSIon!”

1 Like