you are the second moron in a row to think that representation provides an absolute look at how a spec is doing
you look at top 5000 across all brackets and both regions, and you’d think “well obviously 4802 UH DKs and 2939 sin rogues, obviously sin is awful”
meanwhile sub is sitting at 10213- which explains why sin has such low rep- and DK is the lowest repped class in the game even tho frost is actually good
ret is the most repped spec in the game, but is it the best? not at all. there’s just a lot of ret rerolls from last season. frost is the second lowest repped caster spec, but is it bad? not at all. it’s actually the best mage spec for RSS and does incredibly well against melee apes
We can keep playing with numbers.(solo q numbers) There are 61 unholy dks over 2k. There are 13 assa rogues 2k or higher. You can quadruple the amount of assa rogues and if everything was to hold, It still would be lower. I compared Assa to Unholy which is widely regarded as bad and in need of buffs.
I used ratings, I didn’t use representation.
Oh gee look at Sub, top 100 all over 2035.
I would argue the better the class, the higher bracketsthe top 100 would be likely.
Have you played as or against an assa rogue? The spec is insanely good still. It has insane damage still and shiv.
not one person is arguing that it’s better than sub. But you are saying the spec is bad. IT was also explained to you, that the strength of sub brings down the representation of assa since most rogue players will just play the better spec. Sub being good does not mean assa is bad, all it means is less people will play the spec.
Tell me what makes assa good? If you look at locks there is a drop off from destro/demo to affliction but its lowest is 1917. So you would assume that Destro and Demo are better? Or have better players?
What makes assa good?
Aff has been bad all xpac and the other specs have always been better. Same with outlaw.
Assa has a ton of single target consistent pressure. Potentially one of the highest in the game. When paired with shiv and it’s cc it can create unhealable situations on it’s own. Also since it’s mainly a dot spec it can easily swap between multiple targets while maintaining pressure on it’s main target. While not having as much burst or control as sub, it can maintain pressure outside of goes which has it’s own benefits.
you do understand that the majority of PvP DKs have always preferred UH to frost, right? which explains why even though frost is actually decent right now UH has more representation.
sin’s literal only negative- outside of their main CD being countered by 2 races- is that they aren’t sub. period. sin has some of the highest damage output in the game currently and with 4 set and death from above, they do some gnarly burst. it’s just once every 2 minutes rather than once every minute or less with double vanish CDR
aff is actually quite solid at the moment, but it’s the only caster in the game that has zero recourse when kicked
even arcane mage can cast ring of frost or ring of fire. aff gets kicked and stands still for 6 seconds. meanwhile destro and demo are just easier to play
“We want to nerf demo locks and will achieve this by targeting abilities that all 3 warlock specs will use. What? Affliction locks? Never heard of them before”
but it’s always been a shorter duration CC relative to the other spammable with it being a banish.
The tempo of the game and trading alongside has too compared to SL where it was Bang > Nothing > Bang, high winds far more valuable now that sustain is higher and new dampening rules in place.
thats just my 2c.
“its always been like this” was a defense .07 rets were using.
A disorient I think? But see I don’t see how fear or poly being 8s while clone is 6 suddenly makes clone oppressive now that it’s… still 6 but so are the others. I understand it’s stronger relative to them, but it didn’t actually change (aside from one season). So generally speaking in terms of the entire game, it’s behaving like it always has. It’s like saying boomy dh vs turbo is now better for the boomy because poly is shorter. Seems weird to say right? Lol.
I think this is the appropriate direction of discussion personally. I’d like to disclaim again that I agree, it can be 5s. No complaints from me. But I mention my little tid bits because I think the general playerbase just starts crucifying the entire kit whenever they don’t like a certain spec. Maybe the certain ccs that are shorter like stormbolt or interrupts like shear and stuff make it seem like you can’t counter cc as hard. But then when you look at it, more cc’s have been “buffed” compared to last season than not. So… all I’m saying is I think the reasoning is more complicated. Heck, it may just be that people are sick of being clone for the last 20 years, I don’t know lol.
I think by banish he meant it’s non dispellable outside of MD of course. A mage spamming poly on a dps when cleave is going on means that poly breaks if people aren’t careful. Clone isn’t subject to this scenario. Poly also doesn’t leave high winds. So boomy can just cycle clones and keep somebody on the other team out of the fight without fear of it breaking so it seems extra powerful in a scenario with less coordination (which is what everybody talks about now cuz shuffle).
But if you think about it, massive amounts of spells were changed regarding how long somebody can be cc’d for and theoretically damage profiles reworked around these changes. If you assume that blizz believes healers will sit less cc with these changes, they could make damage more consistent since healers will have more uptime to counteract it. But then with clone dodging the changes to all other cc, it skyrockets in value. So yeah with your dh boomy vs turbo matchup I’d say it’s plausible to believe this could have had a massive impact on your odds in that matchup given the snowball effect the rest of the changes could have had on the overall landscape of the game.
Side note: I’ve read a lot of your posts on forums and wanted to say kudos to you sir. You always come from a place of discussion and never seem to be raging at anybody even if you disagree. A rarity it seems.
I feel like a big issue with clone has been what’s the counter for a long time.
I’ve always felt “just don’t get hit by it” type abilities always create this tight rope act where you just have this “frustration” ratio that may or may not be tied to the strength of the specs damage using it.
Allowing MD to counter it alleviated it a bit, but really what depth was actually created there?
I’d like to see more spells kind of interact. At the root of this game a major point to comp strength still boils down to same major factors 20 years later.
How much damage/healing can you put out raw?
Do you have defensive dispels?
Do you have offensive dispels?
Do you have MS?
Like I’m just spit balling here, but instead of wild spells that act like ultimates, what if we started having actual spell interactions that mattered?
Like instead of MD countering clone, now knockbacks can be used to “dislodge” a friendly from a clone or something.
Idk I feel like we still have so very few true spell interactions in 2023 wow. It’s still just dispels, hard defensives, and raw dam/healing acts as the counter to everything
