All of Hunter is getting stale and boring.
I know the game hasnât had crazy changes like youâre suggesting but I fear that would only serve to further reduce participation. The game is complicated and takes a considerable amount of effort to get into. Having drastic overhauls may cause an exodus of players that already play while the game continues to fail to draw in new ones. I think if blizz wanted to invest in creating a system like Setback posted about a few weeks ago with tutorials and UI updates and a âhangoutâ for pvpers where they learn the ins and outs without having to install addons to tell whatâs even going on, theyâd be able to consider larger overhauls to the system and spell interactions itself. Until then, it feels like the game will slowly bleed out either way.
(Not quoting the whole response to save space). Yeah I mean I get all that. I understand how clone is different than spells like poly. I even agree that clone is the strongest of the casted cc, in my opinion anyway. But I realize there are pros and cons to every button. For instance, clone has the shortest range. It also canât be âreâdâ without leaving a gap, etc. Thereâs also the fact that abilities can be balanced around who has them. For instance demo has fear but also has an ms. Mage has poly but also has three different cc schools. Clone lockout means no cc. No heals. No roots. No beam, etc.
Even with all that said, I agree clone is the best. But I donât think listing the ways poly is worse is a good argument.
Not sure about this 
This is the part Iâm hyper focusing on. âAll otherâ cc was not reduced. more⌠literally⌠âdodgedâ than not. I honestly think kicks/interrupts took the worst hit overall. I think that with precog contributed the biggest change. And Iâm team remove precog.
Thanks man, I appreciate it. And yeah I mean I like discussing stuff, itâs fun for me. I also genuinely like to either get people to understand or better understand myself where ideas are coming from because I do think thereâs more echo chamber going on than personal thought.
Hah, thatâd be interesting. Instead of a mental cleanse of a magic ailment, you forcibly knock them out of a physical trap so to speak. Thatâd be cool. But yeah I mean the fact that it canât be dispelled is obviously a huge plus. Itâs a massive tool boomy requires to stay alive and without it theyâd be horrible.
Youâre certainly not wrong about this. I canât even imagine trying to truly get into this game, from a competitive pvp standpoint, as a new player. Not unless you have tons of time to play.
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So are we to believe that boomkins are fine right now with no need for tuning?
Iâm not sure if youâre just really hoping the class gets nerfed or what, but every single person has been saying that clone should be nerfed.
On top of that, The class got yet another owlkin frenzy nerf (to the point where itâs basically a dead talent), and solar beam got nerfed as well. Further, precog got nerfed for all wizards, and demo and sub also both got nerfed which were propping boomy up.
Even if that wasnât the case, though, boomy is and was still not as strong as demo warlock or sub rouge.
ah yes⌠a nerf to mortal coil healing⌠Gotta love it.
Why must everything be about ânot as strong as demoâ how does this change the points that other classes need tuning to, wow can never be a great game again if we tune 1 class at a time. And while you may see more demo locks in say the awc, when you actually que the ladder below 2100 you see more boomys than demo locks these days, even more destro locks than demo locks. Do we balance the game entirely around what is played in the awc? If so then why arent boomys being looked at or any spec that plays with the outliers like demo locks? Surely 1 class doesnt carry the entire comp that just ridiculous, not to say it doesnt offer a lot and shouldnt be tuned which it is next patch as well as frequent hotfixes.
No one said this, but you SPECIFICALLY mentioned JUST moonkin.
^See? Are you being unintentionally hypocritical or deliberately contrarian when it doesnât suit your narrative?
As I stated, EVERYONE has been talking about sub & demo as the biggest offenders, then boomy/enh, then fury/sp. And youâd know that if you looked past your blinders.
Because demo has been the strongest cast for four straight tiers and is one of if not the most salient impacting class on meta besides rogue.
hate to burst your bubble but boomys are *just as represented as demo is, which in itself should be a red flag if demo is a red flag if were using this as a way to balance the game. and i mention tuning for many classes in multiple threads, i use an example and people get locked onto it as if its the only problem in the game. No boomys are not even close to the only issue in the game but you should know this.
You seem to fail to mention that your comment added nothing even remotely constructive to a thread, nor have any of your replies. Further, theyâre misleading at best.
Making the claim
Is pretty disingenuous because LOCK is significantly higher rep than boomy (and feral) in all levels of play and is split between three viable specs and demo itself has basically the same representation.
If you want to talk about game balance then thatâs fine, but everything you said and how you portrayed it makes it sound like you want other classes to get nerfed over yours.
its actually not significantly, i just checked its actually really close. Almost like boomys play with locks.
2400+ there are the same number of boomys as demos, which speaks for itself, above 2200+ there are 36 demo and 29 boomy so 7 more? not significant at all. 1800+ 305 demo and 261 boomy, now we enter the question of where does representation matter before you balance a spec? Do we look at 1800 players to balance the game?
Im not just here to talk about how demo shouldnt be nerfed, this is just about when do all classes get love / tuning they need? Affliction locks are a great example, can we not all agree affliction has needed actual reworks for 2 expacs now? But still nothing, this hotfix actually just nerfed them indirectly. Affy representation is hilarious, even frost mage, deva evoker and im sure a bunch of other specs. But were always hyper focuseed on 1 spec while others sit and wait for changes to happen 1 time per expac that might come to fix their spec.
We dont need to focus on 3 class specs at a time doing minor changes, even the 10.1.5 patch isnt doing that much overall to pvp changes, many specs that are in need of tuning arent touched at all by a patch thats been in the works for 3 months?
TLDR: I advocate for PvP tuning to be far more frequent and to more classes than the same 3 every patch. Were all bored with the state of pvp in this game especially healers.
Agreed, demo and boomy needs to be tuned down. We all can get a long.
Representation tells a story but not the full storyâŚsin is lower because everyone is playing sub because its op but that doesnt make sin worse than dk⌠both dk specs are flat out cheeks
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Heres a fix i would love to see happen tho which i have reported so many times since 11/28/2022,
Warlock Base tree talent
Sweet Souls : Your healthstone heals you for an additional 10% of your maximum health. *Any party of raid member using a Healthstone also heals you for that amount. This part specifically has been bugged and hasnt been functioning for many locks since dragon flight release. Id argue this is a very huge bug considering how healthstones can heal for 200k+. This bug applies to all 3 specs. At this point if they just removed that part from the tooltip and removed it from the talent id be satisfied, then at least its working as intended.
The DH buffs do literally nothing. Youâre buffing a 25k dmg spell to be a 27k dmg spell (since all classes get -5% dmg from trinket bonus).
Itâs like buffing Smite damage on healer priests.
Not even gonna comment on Demon blades buff. Thatâs like 1.8% of ur total dmg.
Banished as in immune to all status effects
Yea it got stronger relatively, yea it didnât change in a vacuum.
But I donât think itâs weird at all. Some company obviously become stronger or weaker depending on meta/tempo of the game.
The value of CCâs also fluctuate depending on how fast the game is going relative to their duration.
Feel like we both know this?
Oh for sure, when youâre highlighted ppl will find reasons to complain about flap or waterwalking
Not entirely, I didnât mean to sound snide. Just like parts have moved so other things need to accordingly.
I wonât come off as an expert and yea a lot of CCâs went up but Iâm not even acknowledging the old trinket bonus.
To me that was an experiment but a blanket % nerf to all cc just didnât really make sense. Or rather it was a really rough approach and having CCâs at fractions is just sorta weird/unintuitive
Regardless I guess all Iâm saying is cyclone has always had the traits of shorter duration/range to its fear/poly counterparts. The tradeoff being itâs dense af banish (immune to heals/damage/buffs/CDs)
fear at one point lasted as long as poly but had to be tuned accordingly because the only downside to fear is bad pathing. Itâs legit free to press.
So sure cyclone has always been 6s but it matching fear and poly is different. The tempo and expansion and its approach to cc are different.
Saying itâs always been like this is analogous to rets saying judgement of the pure was fine cus itâs always been the way it was.
Taking high winds should change clone to having a 10 second cd
We do. I guess Iâm just looking for more specific talk rather than always speaking in generalizations. I mean even for me by the way, Iâm not trying to speak rhetorically or anything. Itâs hard to say why or rather what specifically other than it just âfeelsâ too strong kinda.
100%. Lol
Yeah and like I get this. The entire meta changes and things need looked at in perspective always. Again itâs just to pinpoint specifically why is all; and thatâs an interesting question to me.
Right. I do think though that duration aside, thereâs plenty of differences that set each one of those ccâs (and who has them) apart.
Do you think being 5s would be acceptable and fix it?
For real with marks Hunter. Itâs insane that we have gotten to the point that 125% buffed pvp aimed shots/rapidfire can still get base buffed by 10% and intentionally not unnerfed in pvp, all things considered. In certain circumstances, youâre already âoneshottingâ with it. In others, you arenât even really casting it or able to cast it that much.
Aimed shot only doing an exorbitant amount of damage to 2/5 of the meta is not whatâs causing marks Hunter rep to be bad. It is still going to be just as bad because the handful of things already oneshot by marks damage will just be oneshot harder and the things it loses to will still win. How tf high are they going to have to buff this one dimensional spec before they realize that they just need to redo it like the others?
Honestly hunters problem is that it is just so functional at the base level in m+ that Iâm sure itâs hard for them to make it a priority for one of these in-depth reworks that seem to be intimately tied to knowledge of playing the class. Its hard to understand exactly what they want it to do or be capable of doing. I feel like they just want it to be a hard counter to other things that they want to overbuff because they also donât know what to do with them.