I’ve seen a lot of videos of people doing world pvp in brm by the summoning stones. If people are raiding, (especially if the entrance is indoors) people are wpvping.
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World pvp exist because players are interacting in the actual world of warcraft. It happens more often in contested territories where there is a healthy balance of factions.
Bgs have nothing to do with wpvp
I don’t think you understand what he means by wpvp. He’s not taking about a skull rogue or Druid ganking a lvl 48 mage , he is talking about coordinated guild v guild wpvp. Which doesn’t happen without a reason to do so (wiping rival guilds buffs)
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They don’t wipe guilds in som because there were no reasons to do so. Dying in som didn’t matter at all. Dying with buffs matters a lot
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BGs remove players from the actual world and provide an alternative route of access to the rewards that come from wPvP participation. Without BGs, players would be forced to take part in wPvP if they wanted to rank up. To claim that the two aren’t intimately related is foolish.
They aren’t. The game can keep them seperate by enticing people to interact in the actual environment. I may not be understanding completely but world buffs require you to interact in the world, no?
If BGs did not award HKs and Honor points, how would players have to rank? Via WPvP.
Since this isn’t the case, players can reach r14 while ignoring wPvP entirely. BGs disincentivise wPvP participation.
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False. With bg q times you still needed to wpvp.
Speaking in absolute maximums.
Just because BGs were out did not mean there was zero wpvp.
World bosses, raid night, felwood, what have you. There was always wpvp. Always.
Phase 2 caused a lot of stress and had people even quitting before BGs were out
There was even wpvp before honor was even out.
Phase 1 lotus in sili, ungoro leather, elemental essence
Yep.
We’ve learned that people will always fight if there’s something to fight for.
Honor isn’t the only incentive to do wpvp.
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Again: rank 14 can be obtained without leaving Orgrimar/Stormwind. Battlegrounds are what make this possible. You want more people to participate in wPvP? Get rid of the things that disincentivize it.
Chronoboon isn’t a buff vendor. Players still have to go to the dungeons/raids, complete the quests, buy their boon, collect their buffs, and unboon/reboon them. Every one of those steps is an opportunity to be engaged. The window may be shorter but it isn’t eliminated. If wPvP participation is truly what you’re campaigning for then it’s utter nonsense to suggest chronoboon’s implementation has negatively affected it more than BGs.
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You’re moving the goalpost.
With bg q times you need to wpvp. If there are things and reasons to fight over in the world there will be wpvp.
You want more wpvp? Add world buffs and delay ranking and .5 a bit. This will create wpvp and also promote early game resource farms.
Removing battlegrounds and adding in honor gets us back to classic p2.
You ranked to 13, I’m surprised you don’t know this
If this were true, then the folks itt wouldn’t be complaining about the anemic wPvP scene and erroneously casting blame on one of the best changes made for Classic WoW.
I feel there were better ways to handle world buffs and keep the world pvp aspect of them alive. Most of my fondest memories from real vanilla wow and classic are world pvping with world buffs and against people with world buffs.
My biggest gripe about them was the fact they encouraged you to get them and then not play the game until your raid.
I think a better solution would be to have the displacer not remove the buffs from you and store them, but pause their effect on you and pause the timer on the buffs. Once you manage to make it into the raid safely you can then re-active them and go about your business.
Dying would still remove them, and perhaps you could add some sort of check that dying to a player removed them, but not NPC deaths’. There already must be some logic check for that since dying to an NPC triggers a repair cost but dying to a player does not.
Sadly, pausing the duration wouldn’t be enough for muh parse community. They’ll go back to raid-logging their wbuffed toons if there’s a possibility to lose their precious boofs.
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Perhaps, still a lot of things you can do if dying to a player is the thing that removes it. With a little caution (get a summon to the door) you could still help out with dungeons etc if you wanted too.
A big reason a loud group dislikes buffs is bc they hate dying with them.
But there is a fix. A pve server.
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why? this encourages more alts and alt playing
Ive been on PvE servers that had more wpvp going on than some of the PvP servers I had played on.
Back in Vanilla, I played on Khadgar (EC PVE) and there was a ton of wpvp going on. TM/SS. Raids on Org and Stormwind, raids showing up to fight at Crossroads and Astranaar, Gurubashi arena and so on.
I think the point Im trying to make is wpvp is most dependent on the people who actually want to engage in wpvp than most other circumstances.
I agree that BGs have an impact there but to what degree I could only guess. Vanilla or Classic most of the people that were ranking/doing bgs also were the ones involved wpvp most of the time.
Battlegrounds are obviously a more even, streamlined and controlled environment with easy rezzing whereas wpvp is more wild west with long corpse runs depending on where youre doing the wpvp. I think that’s where the actual incentive is to do BGs over wpvp. You know what youre in for usually. In terms of raw fun and excitement though Id have to go with wpvp.
Edit: Forgot to add that I think the bigger factor in killing off wpvp was dishonorable kills.
Other than that I think both can coexist nicely but again, that depends on the players rather than game design.
I think people are arguing with you because of this point. Later in the post you are saying they simply negatively impacted and such which is true, but in this post it “comes off” as you saying chronoboon isn’t a problem and we should be talking about battlegrounds instead.
Saying that BGs KILLED world pvp, really isnt accurate, but it DID impact it. However, BGs have been in the game since 2005 so it is hardly something we could argue against, and even the classic community has become accustomed to it both in classic wow as well as private servers.
Chronoboon is a VERY different arguement to be had, and it really isn’t even in the same category. This is a custom thing Blizzard added becuase people were complaining on the forums too much about having their world buffs dispelled by low level priest inside capital cities.
I will speak strictly from my experience on Grobbulus.
In our guild we had 3 raid teams with a mixture of mains and alts in each. When it was time for a raid night for a particular team, we called out to every other raider not raiding that week. These were our war and defense squads. These teams would take the next 1-2 hours depending on activity and set up a perimeter around the raid team’s route to raid.
This was something that nearly ALL of the top guilds did, especially on speed run or parse nights, but it was something that was happening every raid night. When we werent raiding, there were times when we would go out and defend some of our “ally” guilds.
This was CONSISTENT WORLD PVP for happening on a DAILY basis. This is simply a fact.
However, with the addition of the chronoboon, this is changed.
There is no longer a need for defense as their are zero consequences to dying on the run. No amount of pvp you do is going to combat the enemy guilds at raid rankings. Because of this there aren’t going to be many guild rivalries started across faction because there are less reasons for a guild vs guild pvp encounter to happen.
NOW, if I were to label another contributing factor that is even WORSE than then chronoboon in this aspect, I would target instance boosting and farming, as farming in the world is where you are going to see the majority of 1v1 and small scale pvp pop up.
I think THIS is what really contributed to the BGs having a larger than normal negative impact on PvP. BGs have always been queueing for ranking; however, when you needed gold you were forced to go into the world.
Sorry for long rant, but I wanted to clarify a bit on my post.
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BRM PvP happens with or without world buffs.
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