You might as well ask why Raden was show to be crushing on MOTHER only to die a few seconds later. The answer is one of three things 1) there was suppose to be a plot about it but later dropped 2) it is something that might be picked up at a later date 3) it was just a nice little detail to setup some fluff background character building but was never suppose to be more then that.
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Only issue I have with Flynn and Taelia is that WE the player never really get to see much the history behind them, only a couple of hints. But those hints leave us wanting more, but blizzard just drops it. Like, come on! Weâre left to imagine for ourselves what happened and ANYTHING that doesnât confirm or refute it just leaves us baffled and frustrated.
Not to mention, it would of been nice if Flynn had SOME hints of his Bisexuality in the game. Even if itâs a casual flirt with a male NPC.
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I think that is good point.
It could be regarded as fluff, but didnât it come in the patch with all the pairings (Flynn, Lorâthemar, etc.)? So my guess would be that there was more; especially when they were building a story around Mother.
Plus, it felt weird to bring him back just to kill him off. The whole 8.3 patch felt like an expansion crammed in a patch; same with 8.2. Some longevity would be nice.
I think Blizzard has so many characters and plot threads that they just drop things.
And exactly. The fact that the two have so much history makes it hard for me to believe there wasnât more to that story. If Flynn was always going to be with Shaw, the conversation with Taelia should have been âyouâll find someone newâ foreshadowing the relationship.
There should have been more hints with Flynn, especially when the game was being more open with these types of relationships. Shaw is also a weird choice. I get the rogue theme, but he has been around for years and was basically devoid of any sexuality. It would fit his personality to be less interested in that stuff. I think there is an expiration period for certain character changes. It is like saying Shaw was always a dragon or dreadlord.
Iâd argue it is much better to build these types of stories around new characters who can grow into the role. It is more genuine.
I think I said it before on here but I think itâs actually kind of good. Chromie being Trans brings something new to the lore. Personally I donât mind it that Chromie was a guy and then ended up being a Female Dragon Gnome since Sheâs pretty much the first trans character along.
Stuff like chromie and pelagos is all well and good until you realize its conveniently not made apparent enough to upset blizzardâs chinese overlords. Also why is it a ceremony for dragons to chose their mortal forms. Originally in the lore they chose mortal forms for deception.
Why are the two mutually exclusive to you?
Because dragons are dragons. Mortal forms are a veil that serves a purpose only to interact with mortals which in the past was usually for deception. Dragons liking mortals and wanting to be around them isnt a thing until recent. Theres no reason for an advanced race to make their manlet masquerade costume an integral part of their coming of age. Unless you want to make the weakest pander to lie that you care about a group of people all the while hiding from ccp. Which is exactly what blizz did here.
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This is blatantly incorrect, weâve seen dragons using mortal guises as early (possibly earlier) as the War of the Ancients, and that was over ten thousand years ago. Anywhere in that span of time, choosing a mortal guise easily could have become a crucial part of dragon society, far more than simple deception.
Also you sound like an utter tool. Itâs not pandering to give representation to someone who was previously underrepresented, especially when itâs done in such a way that serves to both enrich the world through the event, and doesnât drastically change anything we previously were told about the character.
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Pretty sure Blizzard arenât the oneâs that handle Chinese censorship, rather that those would be likely handled by NetEase as the Chinese publisher.
Okay, I literally have no idea what âconversation with Taeliaâ youâre talking about here. The escape with Flynn at the beginning of Kul Tiras questing is from Tol Dagor, not Freehold, and thereâs nothing in the brief interaction we get between Flynn and Taelia afterward that indicates heâs interested in her. The conversation between him and Venrik that reveals his crush on Taelia comes after we arrive with Flynn in Freehold, well into the Tiragarde zone storyline, and Taelia isnât with us at that point.
Iâm seriously wondering if I missed something, because I have absolutely no memory of such a conversation happening.
Introducing a romantic interest for an established character with no previous established history in that area of their life isnât changing the existing character background, itâs adding to it. It would be just as much of a change for Shaw to have firmly indicated that he was asexual or aromantic, because we just didnât have enough information about that area of his life previously. Shawâs hardly unusual in that respect, thereâs plenty of WoW characters with no established romantic history. Any additional information for any of those characters about their personal lives is a change from not knowing anything, and Iâd rather see such characters continue to get development rather than leaving them with thin character backgrounds simply because they arenât new and shiny anymore.
The truth is that unless we see a character flirting or learn about their current or past experiences in the area of romance, we donât know what their orientation is. That applies to a lot of major characters in the game, but that doesnât mean that we should never explore that part of those characters in the future.
Itâs dumb lore. Do you think the dragons would assume a form fitting for the situation or, what they feel best represents them? Only one aspect is a Night Elf(Where are the Trolls?), the rest are recent races, I donât even know what Malygos is⌠what was tradition to him, again? Turning another dragon into his mate?
My mistake. I must be having some Mendela effect, I could have sworn I remember a conversation with Taelia as well. Iâd have to go back and play freehold again. It might occur elsewhere.
But the quest that you are referring to retains the same principle. All of those moments where quest characters talk are meant for the playersâ ears. Itâs a setup for something down the line. Venrik doesnât mention Taelia by name (the tease queuing us in on it being her) and Flynn says âNot Now, Venrikâ (i.e. wait for it). Plus, Venrik says âThe woman you were always talking aboutâ. Flynn is always talking about her, its not some fleeting crush. All alarm bells are flaring for plot significance. Clearly seemed like they were going with something.
For someone Flynn is always talking about, we rarely see or hear of it.
Otherwise the quest designers could have had Flynn talk some other past adventure or escapade with Venrik.
As for Shaw, I think once a character has been in the zeitgeist like that, there shouldnât be any major changes to their identity. I am willing to bet when Shaw was created his sexuality was not important or central to who he is and I think it is important to respect the tradition of established characters.
I feel it is better to come up with new characters who can grow into their roles. The Night Warrior is a good example of this. His sexuality was a part of him from the beginning.
Iâm being ignorant butâŚ
âSo Chromie, did you pick your form?â
âYes! I will a cute gnome girl!â
âOh⌠Oh⌠Give me a sec⌠It seems you got assigned to spy on the Quillboar.â
âThe who boar?â
âYeah, the pig men⌠need change your form.â
âCan I at least be a cute-boar?â
âNo, no⌠they are all pretty ugly.â
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I donât know why this is mutually exclusive either. Overtime as dragons have become more and more comfortable interacting with mortals, a dragonâs mortal form has become far less of a disguise thing, and much more of how they choose to present themselves in a way thatâs not huge and inconvenient in situations where the people theyâd like to interact with are far smaller.
Besides that, dragons have been shown to be able to adapt their form quickly when blending in is necessary, but when revealing their identity they choose to swap back to their preferred form. Both Vaelastrasz and Acridostrasz did this when infiltrating Blackrock Spire - they were disguised as orcs, but when revealing themselves as members of the Red Flight, they swapped back to their human forms. Kairoz disguised himself as well when he brought Garrosh to the AU Draenor, but he was murdered before he could change back.
Itâs clear that a mortal guise is important in that itâs how they choose to represent themselves in a way other than a dragon - otherwise, they wouldnât make an effort to swap their forms when presenting as one.
I fail to see how this is relevant. By the time this occurred, Malygos had gone largely insane, and was waging brutal war that placed him at odds with the mortal races, the other flights, and much of his own flight. Iâm fairly certain what he did to Keristrasza is considered tradition. Or anything he did in the Nexus War.
Thatâs a terrible example.
Yeah, you are, cause this scenario wouldnât even be something that would be an issue, much less even come up. An assignment is faaaar different from the ceremony weâre presented with in Visage Day, and even after the form is picked, weâve clearly seen that dragons can still guise themselves as other things. If Chromie needed to spy on the quillboar for⌠whatever inane reason, she could simply guise herself as one, and change back to her preferred form when done.
This is about how dragons choose to present themselves AS themselves, not what costume they pick for tricking people. While there ARE instances of dragons needing to disguise themselves as something to blend in, most of the time dragons are fairly upfront about being dragons, even when in mortal guise.
Hell, the first time we met Chromie, she was presented to us as âa strange gnomeâ by the local Argent Dawn. She did not need to guise herself as a crusader or a native of Lordaeron to fit in.
Flynn was always talking about her, when Venrik last saw him, but that was before Flynn gave up piracy and fled Freehold without a trace. We donât know exactly how long ago that was, but enough time passed for Flynn to establish himself in Boralus and for Harlan Sweete to build up the Irontide Raiders.
Why not? Also, how does establishing Shawâs sexuality change his identity, when that part of his identity hadnât been explored previously?
I wonât speculate on whether or not the developers who created Shaw had anything in particular in mind for Shawâs orientation, but they obviously didnât think it important enough to establish in game. It isnât disrespecting the tradition of established characters to explore a portion of their background that has been left blank. By that logic, we canât ever revisit any established charactersâ backstories after theyâve been around in the game for a while, and that is a stifling restriction on developing existing characters.
Do you realize how many major characters donât have any established romantic history? Seriously, go take a look at the Horde and Alliance leadership and see how many of the major players are single with no established romantic interests or history. By your logic, we canât ever have any romantic development for most characters in the game!
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That only strengthens the point though. If this was meant to be something Flynn was over, then the designer wouldnât have referenced it. Why would a writer mention a characters past and not use it?
When a characterâs past is brought up to a viewer, it serves a purpose. The developer wasnât going to state that Flynn repeatedly talked about and crushed on a close friend of his (that we also just so happened to meet) if it was never meant to be talked about again.
It hits all the checklists of a future story
Two new main characters that will be seen throughout the expansion introduced to the player- Check
Both Characters have a shared history and are friends- Check
One has said feelings for the other and repeatedly talked about her in the past- Check
When confronted about these feelings he is dismissive and says âNot nowâ- Check
To the player this indicates a story is brewing. The allusion to Taelia and Flynnâs âNot nowâ really is to pique the interest of the player. All storytelling mechanisms are at work here to indicate something should happen with this down the line.
If this was as unimportant as you say, then it shouldnât be in the game.
Let me clarify for the Shaw stuff, I am not saying you canât explore romance with characters. I just mean one needs to take the characterâs traits and history into account. I think if a character was intended a certain way they should stay that way. The changes shouldnât contradict the spirit of who the character is and what they represent.
Shaw strikes me as the lone wolf and the no-nonsense, only business type. Love doesnât seem like his thing. Honestly, if one had to ascribe some sexuality to Shaw- I would imagine he would be straight considering his influence was James bond.
There is so many things wrong about this. 1) he may be influenced by James Bond but that doesnât mean he to be his clone. 2) The entire story of Shaw/Flynn romance is how he actually got tired of simply being business like. Which is actually quite realistic! People are not robots and people generally do look for companionship!(if you want a business type character in fiction who is pretty lone wolf and nonsense that is also gay I suggest looking at Annalise Keating). 3) LGBT+ people come in all shapes and sizes, believe it or not some of them are less artsy and more business focused.
I wrote in some hints at enrequited feelings for Taelia, mostly for flavor and character depth,
There is your answer, the person who developed him wanted to do so for flavor/character depth. Not because there was suppose to be some grand high school crush breakup that was suppose to be involved.
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The point about James Bond was to say if I had to guess any sexuality for Shaw it would probably be close to his source material. There is a greater likelihood that he would be like James Bond than not like James Bond was my message. This does not mean he has to be a carbon copy.
And sure, the settling down trope is a thing. But honestly, a bulk of Wowâs characters are devoid of relationships. Itâs not central to a majority of Wowâs character stories. And when you put those things together with who he is, Shaw was never on the top of the list for a relationship arc.
Here is another thought to consider. Blizzard has been adamant about expanding representation in their games. When asked about gay representation in the past Blizzard always said âwhen the time is rightâ alongside maintaining a distance from larger political topics.
Now Blizzard is more willing and open to show LGBT relationships. What one can glean from this information, is that the older characters were never intended to be gay. Blizzard would have no need to feel like they are lacking representation because they would have always been there (at least openly, I know there have been some subtle hints here and there).
Years ago, when people asked if Wow had any gay characters they would have said Shaw if it was intended. All of this is why I feel he was made to fit a checklist.
The developerâs tweet only highlights what I have been saying. My argument for Flynn is that there is such a disconnect between what he was intended to be and what we are shown. The tweet contradicts itself.
The author admits it was done in part for character depth. Flynnâs dialogue is meaningful. Depth precedes a story and stories are how we explore a characterâs depth. The author is admitting to setting up an unrequited love story.
It would be strictly for flavor if it didnât matter.
The author constructed things in a manner that indicates a larger story, but then somewhat says it was a throwaway. Another route should have been taken if this was not important.
Flynn may have always been intended to be bisexual, but we donât see it. And the quests were pushing a story with Taelia first.
Ideally, his story with Taelia should have lead into his relationship with Shaw. That would make a solid arc.
So we can universally agree that Chromie is a dragon right?
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This sort of mindset would have prevented integrated sports, women in the workforce, and so on.
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