I would really like to see more use of forms for feral and gaurdian. So I have a couple of suggestions to get this thread started, and hope people wil add their ideas.
Most importantly (for me):
Have catform focus on single targets both for feral&guardian specs.(raidbosses,1vs1 pvp, some solo pve etc.)(make a new beefier catform for guardian)
Both dps wise and defensive cd’s.
Bearform for aoe dmg and defensive cd’s agaisnt groups of mobs/players. (dungeons, pvp, some solo pve)
Also make the ability resource for both specs/forms rage, to allow for interaction between forms.
For example in pvp u go bear (for strogner defensives) while 3-4 players bash you, than when theres an opening to attack their mage u quickly swap to cat and go full ST dmg on him/her.
For example in pve, u have a rare/elite mob surrounded by a handful og normal mobs. You stay bear and aoe down the normal mobs before switching to cat to take down the rare/elite.
Little summary than:
Catform=ST dps/defensives
Bearform=aoe dps/pack-defensives
Rage for resource, to allow interaction between forms
Please add to this idea if you thought this was an interesting take on feral/guardian 
3 Likes
Look mate, let’s hope blizzard never listen to you.
Feral could use some help sure, but to get it to the class it used to be. A lot of people loved feral (me included) and wish to have it back the bleed gameplay. It could be argued that a gameplay like legion vers-incarn is the way to go (I would rather not) but please stop trying to change the base of the game.
There are a lot of posts asking to change the very essence of the game. Yeah change happens and it’s good or bad, but don’t try to change everything into another game.
It’s like the people asking for tanks to be deleted from the game or healers to be gone. Yeah wow will someday run out of new things but don’t destroy it just for the sake of change.
What you are asking is a druid from another game not the feral that is in wow. Don’t break a class just because you don’t like it, look what happened to survival hunter and read all the posts there.
And to those who say feral is just broken and need an overhaul, play it. Yeah it’s not the best class, it is really squishy in pvp and on pve its just a waste of a melee place, but that can be easily fixed with a buff and some abilities pruned like gotw or lotp. It’s gameplay has suffered a lot and move from the master of snapshot and bleeds to a simpler rotation and that has only decreased its popularity. You used to have to handle 3-4 buffs for each bleed to be max damage so you had to plan ahead, now just spam swipe or shred with your eternal tiger fury and just worry for a regrowth before each finisher. And bleeds does less damage every patch. We need to go back not to go to a gameplay from another game just because you like that (not saying which since I dont want to get banned but we all know which). Leave wow as wow please. Stop with this posts
2 Likes
I actually played feral in vanilla, and i cannot recall bleeds being the big part of original gameplay.
You obviously understand this is not about breaking the game, you are just having a rant.
I am looking for the shapechanger it used to be and couldve been. Rage will allow for interaction between forms. Having bear focus on aoe and cat on st will give a reason to use both forms.
I love feedback, but please keep rants away! Thanks
4 Likes
I’m all for new ideas, but I can’t see this working without doing a complete overhaul to both tank and feral dps. And would it work in both PvE and PvP content? How would new players embrace the idea without outright quitting?
I’d personally like to see more simplistic changes. Have more old abilities return (excluding symbiosis… that was a disaster). Leader of the pack will always have my vote but I dont think that will be enough. What we really need (as least from a feral perspective) is more utility and less hinderance from our rotation if we were to use said utility.
1 Like
What you are asking for is to completely destroy two specs because of things you saw in another game. They might be fun, I don’t deny that. But, still destroying what this class is therefore having the same problem of what happened with survival hunter.
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I’m a big advocate for Druids being able to use off-spec forms/abilities to advantage. Resto kitty has been a dream come true these last few years, and honestly I feel like Boomkin and Feral have a lot of freedom to use their utility, even if a lot of them don’t.
Bear is a bit of an outlier in that regard. Blizzard gave us the ability to use Remove Corruption and Soothe without dropping form, which is great, but I’d like to see things go even farther. Something like Brewmaster’s Black Ox Statue would free us up to shift out of Bear once in a while without getting insta-gibbed. Boomkin already have treants, which perform a similar function, so maybe that would be a good fit.
Apart from the passive healing we get from Resto, Bears don’t get much use out of their chosen Affinity. I’d like to see a more distinct DPS advantage for kitty-weaving, which would give Druids more of a niche in raid tanking. Adding Sunfire (preferably in-form) to the Balance Affinity would also be a coup for bears.
4 Likes
I always thought that a cool way to increase the shifting in and out of forms gameplay that druids are, understandably, so fond of is to introduce a passive like:
Druidic Focus
For x seconds after shifting out of a druid form, you are able to cast abilities exclusive to the previous form and maintain passive bonuses from the previous form.
For example, a bear druid can shift to caster form to cast regrowth while still having all of the health and armor bear druids have and in the next global be able to cast thrash while still in human form. Then you could recast bear form and continue playing like normal. Or you could play bear with feral affinity and swap every x seconds to maintain your bear thrash stacks and benefit from increased damage of feral, stuff like that.
There might need to be limits so bear druid gameplay doesnt devolve to “hit cat/bear form every 3rd global” but i think a system like this would be a good way of introducing in-combat form switching that doesn’t come with major downsides like it does now.
4 Likes
In the description of the class it says druids are shapeshifters, there is basically none of that in gameplay. So no im not asking for 2 specs to be destroyed, I am asking for them to be fixed!
And when you say “what this class is”, what do you mean? its been broken and fixed and overtuned and nerfed to the ground, pruned, unpruned, and pruned to the ground. Its been top arena spec, and when BFA launched every single rated feral player left the game. Really what are you on about? I only see ranting from start to stop.
3 Likes
The Guardian spec you spec of was kind of how Feral was in Cata if you went for a more hybrid centric Bear spec with enough off DPS to be middle of the pack. With that spec, when the other tank taunted, you could shift into Cat form and do more DPS than any Tank, sometimes by a substantial margin. I’ve played a Druid since Vanilla (not that it matters, but it’s been my favorite class ever since) and like Rogues, Blizzard has to be very careful how they buff as one change that can benefit some forms making them overpowered in PvP with the current PvP design and possibly vise versa.
With 4 specs, it does further sandbox you into a form, especially for Bear since dropping out of form to take advantage of one of the Affinity’s is not always an option when tanking boss, adds, or trash. Solo wise, if you’re referring to daily grinding or leveling, the Affinity abilities give you that option. For example, if only one tank was needed 50% of the time, Affinity’s give you an option to spot heal or do some melee/ranged DPS.
Aside from Affinity’s, and maybe this is some rose-colored glasses going on here, but the old talent system was superior to letting you put together a sub hybrid spec as a hybrid spec, think Dreamstate Resto Druids for example. However, you were locked into that spec in those times unless you could use hearth and summon back ASAP (not always an option). Affinity gives you this option to have a weaker version of the main spec version.
Far as Feral (Cat), I wish Blizzard would revamp the spec or give it the kick it needs. Though my most significant request, each beta is for Bear/Guardian Druids to retain Rage when your raid or Mythic+ group mounts up. I would even be ok with it being a talent to trade off a utility row.
2 Likes
I agree on the overhaul part. I really do believe feral/gaurdian needs an overhaul. The class being described as a shapeshifter, but only resto gets that option when picking the proper talent for it.
With shapeshifter as the class fantasy alot needs to be done i think
3 Likes
I won’t disagree @Zilvestram on both specs needing some extra love. I think Blizzard did some really bad knee jerk moves when purge-mania happened to Bears. We lost our magic reduction ability, put a defensive on the GCD (come on Ion, you can do better…), but seems to really push Iron Fur. With that said, if Blizzard does release a TBC classic server I will play the !@#$ out of it, as that was one of my favorite expansions playing a Druid.
1 Like
IFf i simplify my request it wuld be more in the line of all catform damaging abilities are singletarget, but when you change into bear all the abilities stay in the same place but turn into aoe damage abilities that does about 60% less dmg.
(and maybe give them different names)
So cat for ST and bear for aoe. And stronger defences on bear so you use that form for trying to ride of the offencive cd’s from other dps.
Having rage in both forms would also allow to continue gameplay when going from pack of mobs to singletarget.
This was for feral btw 
2 Likes
The problem here is your definition of “fixed” is highly personal and differs from other people’s definition of “fixed”. Some people might see your changes as fixing. Others might see it as utterly ruining their favourite way to play this game, and your posts seemed to be filled with a lot of light-hearted disregard for that group.
Krevni brought up the example of Survival so I’ll explain what he meant by that.
Survival, like the other Hunter specs, used to use a ranged weapon. It distinguished itself by focusing on buffing its shots, like Explosive Shot, and it was more DoT focused with fast-paced gameplay. It also focused on utility elements like traps. The whole idea was being resourceful. It was usually a pretty popular spec that attracted a lot of attention in the class.
When Legion was announced they revealed one of the most unexpected, abrupt, and major class design changes they have ever made: Survival will go into Legion as a pet-centred melee spec. It will lose the ranged weapon entirely (something every version of every Hunter spec had from the very beginning) and fight alongside the pet in melee. Hunters literally logged off the servers on July 16th 2016 as Survival with Explosive Shot, Black Arrow, and Arcane Shot with a ranged weapon and logged in the next day with Raptor Strike, Mongoose Bite, and Lacerate and a melee weapon in the mail. It was a completely different spec. Almost none of what it was before 7.0, some of which had been part of the spec since Classic, made it into that expansion.
The result? One of the most controversial and unpopular specs the game has ever seen. Don’t get me wrong. Some people love it to death. For some people it’s a dream come true and the best thing that ever happened. For others it’s an unthinkable nightmare that took away their favourite way to experience the game. It’s certainly a huge sink of development time and effort, however, and it might as well have a different playerbase to the rest of the class. And the Hunter forums to this day are dominated by bickering over whether it was a good idea, whether we should go back, and all sorts of compromises they should consider.
The point? Be careful what you wish for when you ask for a total spec remake. It might sound all flowery and amazing but for some people, and maybe many more than you think, it’s incredibly alienating and unwelcome. It’s not a great feeling to be told that your favourite thing to play in the game is obsolete and needs to be replaced. I don’t have much experience with Feral but I know it has been a great spec in the past and can be a great spec in the future. It is not so flawed that they need to replace it with something totally different
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And, i never mentioned any such massive changes AT ALL, i wanted to use the forms more. Feral was NOT a bleed spec from start of game, so feral got the survival hunter type of change before survival hunters did.
Since, as you say, you dont know feral very well it seems like you are argueeing for the sake of argueeing without actually having any diea what you are talking about. Just like some other person earlier in post.
Feel free to add positive, constructive and creative comments instead
I’m a bit puzzled here. Every argument here made against your point of view is not constructive. You are too biased, I can understand you calling my previous post as a rant, but there was info to read but you completely disregarded it.
Now beppls also tried to give his point of view and you told him he just want to argue.
Do you want feedback or you just want people calling your idea the best?
BTW I play feral since bc (besides mop and wod that I left) and yes feral was always focused on three bleed dot and making it snapshot. In vanilla feral wasn’t an option as dps unless you massive farm the 3 charges weapon but so did a lot of the specs (or the meme we don’t speak about boomkin wasnt a thing). On bc, when feral was viable, our main damage dealer ability was rip. And on wotlk the rotation got its complexity of snapshoting that marked our class.
And you always make the same argument “druids are shapeshifters”. Do you play as druid on high content? Or on pvp? On m+ don’t you go out of form to help your healer? Do you just stay on cat form even when you need to soak damage? Don’t you shapeshift to remove slows? On pvp don’t you shapeshift? One of the most common complaints to druids on pvp forums is that they have this massive kit tool, since they can change form and remove snares. Need to kite? Travel form + wild charge talent + dash if you need more space. Are you been targeted by melee? Bear form + thorns. Need to take out an enemy for a couple of secs? Out of form and cyclone/ or root a warrior/dh.
Druid does shapeshift a lot, and (as you said to beppls) maybe if you don’t know what your are talking about just leave.
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Oh and by the way when you change into a bear or a cat or a tree or a fat chicken (or a skinny Dino with feathers) you are indeed shape shifting so I don’t know why you say there aren’t part of their gameplay. 
I would certainly be happy if my bleeds would actually HURT again. I miss being the Melee Warlock basically. On a side note, I do think that ferals and Boomkins in PvP are just too squishy. Not sure how to change it, but this isn’t the only class suffering in that regard.
If we are going to remain squishy, we should NUKE like no ones business.
As far as the original post, I see what you’re trying to do. Sounds neat, I’m not for or against it. I do agree with a few others though, the changes may ruin both specs. But hey, sometimes you need big changes to make things fun again.
Yeah I would love for bleeds to do damage. I really miss seeing my enemy rot while I kite them. I think that would fix a bit our defense problem since bleeds + kiting will make them lose some gcd on healing instead of just focusing and letting the passive healing handle our tick damage.
Let’s hope shadowlands bring back that type of gameplay back, im not a fan of big bites build
2 Likes
Some are big fan of bleeds, i dont midn bleeds at all, but personally i prefer big bites.
What if talents gave us the option to focus on one of those ?
Theres many different opinions about the talents we have now, and how few of them are viable. There should be plenty of options to put in some talents that will send us in a direction focusing more on dd or bleeds.
