The reason to bring a hybrid DPS over the healing counterpart is because your raid doesn’t need 20 healers. At some point you’ll be full up on healers but utility such as Lay on Hands, Rebirth, Innervate, etc. are always useful to have more of.
There are also group only abilities that you can’t have all your healers cover like totems and auras.
Not to mention that if you attempt to have nothing but Warriors, Rogues, and Mages make up ~25 of the raid slots you’re going to run into issues with loot as too many people are now competing for the same items.
You also have 40 raid slots to fill up, and that’s arguably the hardest part of raiding in Vanilla. A good reliable raider that’s a Ret Paladin is better than an unreliable one that’s a Rogue.
If we were talking optimally then yes, you wouldn’t really use hybrid DPS. However if that were the concern, then buffing hybrid DPS a little wouldn’t matter anyway.
and outside of optimized raids, then there is room for hybrid DPS if the player is good.
And that’s why you give them something the healer doesn’t have. Like I said above. For example put kings back as the 31 point ret talent and make vengeance give a raid wide buff
Lol. You literally flip flop. First you say damage then you say something to seperate from healers then you say damage. Let’s say a rogue does 1k dps. How much damage should a hybrid do
What you’re really talking about is people WILLFULLY CHOOSING NOT to play to their CLASS’s strengths in a given aspect of the game and those same people clamoring and demanding that Blizzard change the game to suit them.
Flip flopping how? My argument is tweek damage #s so the gap isn’t too large.
Well of course a raid full of rogues will have gearing issues. But one with 8 plate,8 cloth,8 leather.(example, healers getting the int of course, you get what I’m saying) the loot issue isn’t the point. Your hybrid dps use the same dps gear as pures. Hybrid dps are brought to fill the spot they are the last priority for gear. Which brings me back to the point why being them over a pure?
To answer if a rogue does 1k would be nice for the hybrid to do 900.
Basically you’re saying here why bring a druid when you can bring a rogue. Simple answer is you’re going to have a lot of rogues already. Druid bring a bit more utility. Will a guild have the same number of druids and rogues, no, but less people will play feral druid end game, thus you will have spots open.
This would make rogues quite meaningless. Druids bring much more utility than rogues ever could, why would I bring a rogue than if a druid almost as much damage?
But you’re missing the point. It’s NOT all about dps.
Sure you have your dps classes but the hybrids are just as important in a 40 man. What they lack in dps they make up for in buffs/heals alongside that lower dps.
Another point anything brought by the hybrid dps is broght by the hybrid heal. So why bring a hybrid dps over a pure dps if you have enough heals is the argument im making.
EVERY CLASS brought something to EVERY aspect of the game. EVERY CLASS had something at which they were “strong” in EVERY aspect of the game.
Johnny might wish that strength were something other than it was. Johnny might want to play that CLASS in a different manner, but that does NOT negate that strength that his CLASS brought.
If Johnny WILLFULLY CHOSE not to play to his CLASS’s strengths in a given aspect of the game, that is a JOHNNY problem, NOT a game problem.
There is an absolute point where it’s better to just have more throughput than utility and it’s proven time and time again by the best and fastest clearing guilds (both back in the day during vanilla and on private servers like Nost that still held onto the elitism and anti-hybrid mindset). That point is well before you’d need to consider taking any hybrid DPS.
Assuming the mindset of classic won’t be fraught with the same p-server elitism or current live elitism because vanilla is “more like D&D” isn’t going to happen. The game will be as elitist as it’s ever been. Warcraft logs, some form of vanilla io, etc will all exist and then there will be scrub guilds who don’t care and might eventually clear naxx, but so far after the fact and so slowly compared to good guilds they might as well not have bothered.
[quote=“Fesz-cenarius, post:33, topic:30568”]If Johnny WILLFULLY CHOSE not to play to his CLASS’s strengths in a given aspect of the game, that is a JOHNNY problem, NOT a game problem.
[/quote]
If BLIZZARD failed to highlight the importance of this when the game first dropped because no one even knew that raids were a thing that existed and that the game was purely a “holy trinity = rule of law for raids” and then went on to fall in love with a class, and then read into a spec and was like “wow, look what I could do with this!” only to get to max level and be told by the world “lolno, you’re invalid” then THAT is a blizz problem. One they eventually fixed because they realized it was garbage.
Also… can someone PLEASE tell me how to manually edit quote tags now, because I’m sick of having to use their built in reply function which only ever grabs the full thing.
Knowing this makes me want to play a ret paladin or boomkin. I love playing the underdog, like alliance as PvP, etc. When you succeed, it’s that much better. God I love a challenge.
In principle classic will be static forever once naxx is released, time is what is irrelevant. If it takes a guild to casually clear naxx in a year, they can still clear it, it’s not like the gear changed and they vastly out leveled it, they would clear it in the same manner as the people who got server first. The slower guild however just wasn’t “hardcore” about it.
If those 8 leather are all Rogues, they’ll be competing for T2. However if some are Feral Druid, then they will be taking off pieces instead as they can’t equip Rogue T2 and Druid T2 isn’t good for Feral DPS. A Warlock wont take the same cloth as a Mage. Warriors and Rogues both might want the same one-handers that a Ret Paladin doesn’t care about because they want two-handers(and Arms Warriors basically don’t exist in raids in 1.12).
Gearing a raid and loot competition is not as simple as you’re making it out to be.
If you want to play optimally then there is no reason to bring a hybrid over a pure but that’s just the nature of min/maxing: If it’s not the absolute best, you ignore it. If you buffed hybrids, you would just flip the situation and make it so that optimally speaking there is no reason to bring pures.
I’m sure with enough pulls and time my current guild could full-clear mythic, but I’m not about to pull my hair out waiting for these people to take 800+ pulls to learn a fight. It’s a waste of time and resources. To that end, I’m not about to stomach it in vanilla, either. I hate incompetence. I’m not interested in carrying. I’m interested in running this like clockwork to the point the fight itself is boring (because wow is easy) and the real enjoyment shifts to the competitive aspect of “competitive cooperation” raiding provides.