To get this out of the way, the mere concept of votekicking itself is fine and should never be removed.
However, the goofiness of the current penalty structure needs to be reworked.
My opinion is that players should never have the ability to ban other players for 30 minutes from queued content. However, I ultimately understand why penalties exist, even if I don’t agree with them. Still, I think there’s a better balance that can be achieved.
With that in mind, here is what I would like to see happen:
Make Deserter a stacking debuff that resets everyday.
First kick of the day = “freebie” at 1 stack of Deserter. You get to wait out the remainder of the natural 15 minute queue CD that everyone already gets in Random dungeons, but that’s it. This first stack gives someone the benefit of the doubt that they weren’t a real issue and that the kick could have been for literally no reason.
Second kick of the day = two Stacks of Deserter = 15 minute penalty. This by its very nature means the timeout is longer than the 15 minute queue CD since that CD starts ticking down the second you join a group, whereas the 15 minute debuff starts fresh upon the second kick of the day. Getting kicked more than once in one day lends credence to the kicked person being the issue.
Subsequent kicks = additional Deserter stack which adds additional 30 minute penalties AND restarts it (e.g. 4 stacks = a fresh 75 minute timeout). Again, if you get kicked more than once in a day, it’s likely you’re the problem, and the more kicks in a day you get, the more likely it is you deserve whatever is coming.
To summarize, this change helps mitigate unfairly punishing someone who may have been kicked for zero reason during a one-off occassion, while also punishing those who are much more likely to be an actual problem.
On the kicking side of the house, I’d like to see the following:
Bring back the votekick CD to minimize trolling.
Apply a stacking votekick CD to those who repeatedly initiate kicks. For example, the first kick of the day can be limited to waiting 3 minutes after the dungeon starts, the second kick of the day can be limited to 6 minutes after a dungeon starts, and so on. These are just example numbers of course, but you get the idea. This helps minimize trigger-happy trolling while preserving the ability to kick.
I’m interested in other player’s thoughts on this.
I don’t think there’s been any indication that the internal cooldown has been removed for the people who use vtk “too often”. As far as we know it’s still there. But yeah it shouldn’t be an automatic cooldown for everyone, just for the frequent users in the way it already is.
Dropping from the group wasn’t part of my post and I did not speak to that, so please don’t assume.
If you think dropping or kicking should have the same penalties, then feel free to say so. There’s no difference between the two currently and I didn’t speak to that because I don’t see a need for that part to change at this time.
Also, you conveniently ignored the part of my response where I don’t see a reason for them to be different.
To spell it out in crayon for you, I don’t see a distinction between dropping and getting kicked. When I talk about kick penalties, I talk about dropping as well.
Let’s say you never get kicked, but you want to leave a terrible group. Your first should be the freebie stack, just as if it were a kick. Etc.
There is a distinction because the kicked aspect has nothing to do with an actual choice made by the player. I kind of like your ideas though, due to the debuff system feeling overly punishing for the players (Yes, I know “why” it is how it is now).
I like that there is a “freebie” because there are situations when it feels wrong to receive a dungeon deserter debuff and they are being handed out like candy if you don’t complete the content fully with no exceptions. This isn’t exactly fair to the players. If a person is “abusing” vote kick (I know people can be kicked for any ol’ reason) but with no limitations on that “feature” it can be used very liberally if a person wants to.
This would also help in LFR and backfillers wouldn’t be ticked as much for leaving after they’ve came back for the boss they originally missed.
Also in my recent case of having dawn breaker bug out and not letting our group “fly” due to being stuck in combat with nothing… I had to leave the dungeon and got a debuff. If this type of system was in place I wouldn’t have been ticked with the deserter due to poor dungeon design… which is a plus.
Using the vote kick more than once a day lends credence to the vote kicker being the issue as well, so it’s good we’re talking about limiting this.
In turn, does getting kicked more than once a day lend credence to the kicked person being the issue?
In good faith, let’s compromise. The first time you get kicked/leave, a 10 minute deserter debuff. Still helps deter people leaving or doing something to get kicked, but not a harsh punishment at all.
Second time you get kicked, you’re the issue, 1 hour debuff.
All subsequent instances of leaving or getting kicked add 30 minutes.
I wish that if you were kicking someone for their behavior, there was a little check box on the vote kick option to also report them at the same time. A 30 minute deserter buff shouldn’t be a penalty for someone being kicked because of their bad behavior, that’s a bandaid solution, they should be reported/penalized. Not being able to do a dungeon again for 30 minutes isn’t enough of a punishment and I agree shouldn’t exist, too.
I think it’s just like, a temporary minor incentive for people to not behave badly, but I don’t think it’s very effective.
Removing this highly encourages people to drop group just like we saw happen in Wrath. Or, if the deserter debuff is removed on kicks, to troll/afk like we saw in Wrath. The Deserter debuff is to encourage players to finish what they sign up for, it is not an account penalty.
I think you have to put in perspective what’s happening. You’re talking like it’s needed to eject multiple players from trivial content when it’s not. Considering every kick comes with a 30 minute debuff… we actually should be more forgiving with its use, not more generous with it.
If people don’t listen to the instructions and die multiple times, wasting the time of the rest of those who sign up? No they deserve that kick, the majority agreed.
