Cataclysm worse the second time around

PvPs better, most classes feel better, the old world was tired AF, raid mechanics are massively improved.

WotLK had Arthas, DKs and came at the perfect time as the games popularity was still surging, even with the TBC content drought.

Objectively when you look at its systems, WotLK is a mixed bag. Nothing wrong with loving it, but its massively overrated.

One of the hallmarks of something being overrated? Its diehard fans having almost no specific reasons for why its so good. The WotLK brains out there just say “Wrath best cuz wrath best”.

Its not. It belongs in the same “tier” as Cata. Cata did a lot right but does get dragged down from cut content.

TBC, MoP and Legion dumpster WotLK from a gameplay + content standpoint.

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Lol, Shaddup.

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And I think you’re wrong and he’s right.

See how this works? Should the back and forth keep going? You should be happy, you had a ridiculous amount of time you got to spend in Ulduar and ICC both while Cata is going to be seeing an accelerated timeline with hardly any time for those of us who love Cata to enjoy.

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Mmmmhmmm sure.

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This thread represents the sad state of 30+ year old gamers.

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Yeah that’s why sever population numbers peaked in wrath of the lich king and never once came anywhere close ever again because they improved the game so much by removing class identities and personal choices. Everyone is literally just a gearscore post wrath because that’s the only relevant stat in the game now.

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So you think it’s a superior system to have one single viable talent tree and zero access to any of the others until maximum level?

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Pretty sure they said something like 12 months or so for cata, no chaance 2 years. 2025 NA summer gonna be MoPC

This isn’t an airport

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Man look at your rant, and your calling others man children

So you think it’s a superior expansion to be reusing Naxx for the first tier of raid and having a 5 boss tier located all in the same arena?

Want to keep the back and forth rolling?

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LOL no, most classes were absolutely worse. I think that you’re the first person I’ve ever seen say that they were better.

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Move on to MoP remix it will be alot of fun

They don’t want people to notice how bad it really is, but needed to release it so they could get to MoP. :laughing:

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The game (and thus genre) started going hard mainstream with Wrath and it just got progressively worse from there. That’s not to say each successive expansion didn’t have anything going for them at all but they lost all touch with anything resembling old school, community driven gameplay.

They had a game most everybody could play and enjoy and then they went and ruined it by making it a game for everybody. If that sounds familiar to you, well, that’s because its happened across almost the entire entertainment industry during our lifetimes.

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So why you say this

But then say this

So you first deny that they are right about there being a problem.
Your next statement is admitting that they are right that there is a problem.

This version of Cata is super terrible. It is not even close to the original version.

The guilds have now been changed to a guild UI that did not exist until Shadowlands came out.

And you cannot type /groster to set it back to the original version. That change was made in Dragonflight.

Do not for one single second tell me that ANY of us are paying Cataclysm, cuz we aren’t.

Oh and prelaunch event? Completely taken out of the game.

This version of Cata sucks horrible bad. It fails big time.

I swear. I promise everyone here that what i said more than once was this

Vanilla had many changes,
TBC had even more
Wrath had even more than TBC
Cata is going to have a lot of changes to where you will barely be able to recognize it.

I said pretty much exactly that multiple times here and in slightly different versions of saying that. But I knew for a fact that none of us were getting out Cata that we had before.

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How? How do they play better in Wrath? The cata class design takes what works well in wrath, cleans it up and doubles down on it. They play ALMOST INDENTICALLY with a few quality of life improvements.

DEATH KNIGHT: Objectively better. SO much better. Rune system massively improved to prevent random resource spikes, trees much more focused with gameplay identities. No more “put up diseases, swap around some of the spells flavor wise” gameplay that every DK spec, DPS or tank, revolves around. DK is better in every way humanly possible. People will always remember DKs from WotLK because of the OP release, first new class and Arthas. But WotLK was a testing grounds for DKs. The real release is Cata, where they’re easily the most well - designed class.

DRUID: Feral slightly improves gameplay wise as a tank and DPS, though nothing major is added. Balance is so - so. Its more fleshed out but some people hate the eclipse system. Resto I would say is about the same, unless you loved being a tree. Druid stays the same.

HUNTER: Survival feels much better and really comes into its own in Cata. Its identity is far more fleshed out and the proc heavy gameplay shines. BM and MM barely change. Slightly improved in Cata.

MAGE: Arcane improves massively, being a spec that’s very easy to get started with but now possesses a lot of room for optimization. Fire is better because combustion in cata is STUPPPPPPPPPPPPID fun. Frost is a littttle bit better as well, maintaining a similar identity but getting a few fun new toys. Mage is improved in Cata.

PALADIN: Holy power is a huge W for Ret and Prot. No more “press the button when its off - cooldown” monkey gameplay. There’s an actual flow to both specs. Holy gets some cool new toys, but a combo point system for a healer makes it slightly worse than before. Overall, Pali is better.

PRIEST: No more “PW Shield in your PW Shield so you can PW Shield your PW Shield while your PW Shielding” Disc gameplay. Enormous improvement. Holy gains new toys, though not entirely practical toys. Shadow kind of stays the same but gets cool glowing purple orbs. Priest is better in Cata.

ROGUE: Almost identical to wrath, but Sub is improved quite a bit and finally starts to feel like more than “generic rogue, but PvP spec” (though its still the best PvP spec). Very little to say here. If you like Wrath Rogue, you’ll like Cata Rogue. Combat go brrrrr, Assa go poisssssson.

SHAMAN: Enhance and Resto are much, much better. Far more fleshed out variations of what they were. The visual update really helps Resto separate from Druid, as the “water” healer, and their identity as the big raid CD healer starts to take off. Elemental is kind of the same. Ridiculously simple lightning go brrrr and giant Lava Bursts. Shaman wins in Cata.

WARLOCK: The only class that I think gets a little bit worse. Demo is pretty much the same and Affliction is a bit different, but feels pretty similar gameplay wise. The outlier here is Destruction. There’s no way around it, Cataclysm Destruction is a disaster of unprecedented proportions. Every generic Warlock spell being a DPS increase for it just makes it dreadful to play, and it has more management than the management spec (Affliction). Locks are worse off in Cata.

WARRIOR: Prot plays almost the same. Arms plays MUCH MUCH better and really comes into its own in Cata. Really nails its “I hit slow, BUT HARD” fantasy. Fury is slightly worse. Its still fast paced, but Blood Thrist, X, Bloodthirst, X, Bloodthirst" gets pretty tiresome. Warrior is sligggghtly improved because of Arms.

Compared to how they play in Wrath, I think you would be hard pressed to make an argument that Death Knights, Mages, Shamans, Paladins and Priests are much better from a design standpoint. Warriors, Druids, Hunters and Rogues don’t change much but are slightly improved because of a few new toys. Warlock is imo, the only class a reasonable and objective person could look at and say “that’s a downgrade”.

If you sincerely believe that Wrath Classes play better, I would absolutely be willing to hear the reasons why. Not hyperbole, but genuinely, objective changes that make them worse in Cata.

If all you can do is respond with a “hollow” remark that doesn’t in anyway backup your belief that they play better in Wrath, you’re simply proving my point. “Wrath is better because it is” is a very, VERY poor argument.

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Cata had to happen, so we can get mop

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They made the game FAR easier to get into, I’ll give you that. That started in Wrath, grew in Cata and exploded in MoP.

They made the game FAR more difficult to excel at. It became less about “time investment + knowledge” and more so “skill + knowledge”.

I’m willing to concede that over the years, they went too far in the “skill” direction. MMOs should try to strike a balance.

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Amen. Worst designed spec in wow’s history.

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