Yes precisely if death is not a meaningful obstacle that prevents you from achieving your goals without improving(in vanilla this would be questing to 60) then dying is not failure.
Okay? But unless you’re playing hardcore that doesn’t matter. Let’s say I don’t arbitrarily care about dying since there’s no real consequences in vanilla, and I want to yolo zerg some murlocs. Sure I die a few times maybe to runners but I still finish the quest.
Loss on death gamers are going yes, this lol.
I don’t know how many wrecks I looted for pve deaths in eve pushing hard content solo the good stuff did not drop. The 2 million common item lived. The 500 million module up in smoke.
PvP death, yeah… Your wreck will be picked clean. No need to worry about that wreck. Your new “friends” took care of that for ya.
Except if you die, and do not die the second try, you made an improvement over what you did before. You self corrected your mistakes. And that’s what you do when leveling to 60, barring getting a high level player to finish your quests for you.
You can literally make this claim about any other video game. So if a video game doesn’t actively punish you significantly for dying, you would rather the game play itself for you? If the death wasn’t a punishment beyond a retry, it’s means it’s easy? You’re engaging in circular reasoning here.
If you died, you made a mistake. To correct your mistake, you have to change your actions and behavior to defeat the obstacle. A game that lacks this is absent of challenge which makes it unfun.
And nobody was even claiming vanilla was the hardest thing ever. We are comparing it to cataclysm where you have to actually be brain dead to die. Vanilla will kill you for a plethora of potential mistakes and you have to be careful. There is zero question to anyone honest who’s played both that one game is relatively harder than the other.
No you did not necessarily improve, you might have, or you might have just done the exact same thing you did before and not died this time. Per the example I gave you can simply keep yoloing those murlocs, never changing anything and still finish the quest.
In WoW you usually don’t have to correct your mistake while leveling.
Once again see above example.
Unlikely. RNG plays a role if you were within 1-2 hits of a kill but 99% of the time you did something different to avoid dying again.
You probably learn to:
There is a plethora of things to do to prevent death/failure and get your quests done.
Doing any of these above suggestions will change nothing about your outcome when cataclysm leveling. It’s pointless because nothing hits hard and you 2 shot everything. There is no point of failure in cataclysm which results in death. It teaches you absolutely nothing and provides you know obstacles where you have to use your brain.
Debunked your point above.
Actually the opposite you agreed with what I said.
Death is not an indicator in vanilla you need to improve your skill set while leveling. Hence dying is not an indicator of failure in terms of pure game mechanics.
Or you just come back and yolo the camp again and don’t do anything differently, same result in the end.
Yeah, idk who thought that 3 “Joust” style quests was original, relevant, or fun. Seems like they really ran out of ideas in places and just relied on nostalgia from old tv and video games.
Or if rogue…sneak in. Kill target mob. Get item if needed.
Then die of own free will. Depending on gy placement it be time efficient to die on quest site. It was faster than walking back and hitting respawns on the egress route.
Rez sickness at gy, see quest giver. And burn out timer. I knew when trainers would have something for me. Or I fished lol.
I suicided Tauren mills quests a lot. Die a complete turn in less than 15 seconds. Then I burned off sickness timer to see undercity
Get new skills, hit ah, ride the bat back. Just as Rez sickness ran out. Saving the extra minutes if I actually fought my way out.
I didn’t? I gave you ways you would improve your skill to avoid failure.
I gave you one caveat where if a fight was razor thin rng plays a role, and curiously you conveniently ignored the part after where I said rng wasn’t the determining factor in 99% of encounters. Hell I’ll add to this point, even in the 1% of times it is, you probably could have done something different to not have margins that low.
Except it is? If you repeat your mistakes you die. The only way around it is getting carried by other players.
No. You either apply the improvements in your approach I listed (or some other ones), or get carried. You are trying really hard here engaging in circular reasoning. You are admitting and agreeing with me vanilla has risk of death/failure, but trying to somehow twist that as not being harder than a game where failure is nigh impossible. “It’s not really harder” because you don’t like vanilla and have a hate bone that refuses you to admit any point in it that other people enjoy.
It’s really this simple:
In vanilla, do stupid stuff - die and try again like any other video game for adults.
In cataclysm: impossible to die unless you afk in a camp or are actually, truly brain dead.
It’s really this simple:
Is vanilla leveling dark souls? Hell no
Is vanilla leveling harder than cataclysm leveling? Hell yes.
You just don’t like vanilla, that’s fine. You don’t need to make things up about it when comparing it to cataclysm. There is no question vanilla leveling is harder than cataclysm leveling and it’s not even close.
Longer doesn’t equal harder though and sure the first time you play vanilla it is very punishing. After the first time as said, you learn from your mistakes.
Very few are upset they are in the end game zone sooner rather than repeat the same content several times decades apart. Any new player isn’t going to suddenly want to go back and take a month of ages to get to 60-70-80. So, it being slower/ ‘harder’ only saddens a few people and they have ERA if they want to keep banging their head against it forever.
Players being boosted guild mates and not learning how to play their class is not a new thing either, In fact its why boosting got it’s bad name from either by carrys or credit card.
People are dying in cata just FYI 
I ranted, forgive me.
Would be pretty rough to still think Vanilla is hard after playing through a couple times, you’re right where you should be
Not sure about “bloodgulch”, but the “Hook em High” quest is more likely a reference to the famous Clint Eastwood movie “Hang 'em High”, which is where Halo got its map name.
Sure, you would get no argument from me if I could actually get to 80 without playing Cataclysm. If they actually had ERA servers for TBC or WotLK then I would GLADLY play on those servers. I’ll continue to play on the ERA server we have, but it doesn’t stop me from wanting the game we had in WotLK.
Also, even though I swore I would never do it after the first time in 2010, I gave Cataclysm leveling another chance.
I leveled a Worgen Warlock from 1-13 through the starter zones. Had a couple of quests bug out on me so had to do those over again, but the phasing was kind of cool and the stories were interesting. But, just as I remembered, the questlines were completely linear with Blizzard leading you along by the nose the entire way. Also, I never even came close to dying - not even once. Actually I don’t think I even dropped below 50% health at any point. While this in and of itself isn’t an indictment, the fact that I NEVER ONCE had to eat or drink or bandage or drink a pot IS. Just chain pulling until all quest MOBs are dead or quest objectives are done. That has NEVER been my experience in leveling through Classic ERA or original WotLK.
So, still giving the benefit of the doubt, I jumped onto my level 51 priest left from before TBC launched to see if this was any better. I went to Winterspring since I love the aesthetics of that zone and it being a 50-55 zone it seemed perfect. While I did have to stop and drink after 5 or 6 chain pulls, even if I forgot and pulled MOBs while oom I could just sit there and take their hits while I wanded them to death. If this EVER happened at any level range in ERA I would be making a corpse run, no question about it. Not to mention that I was able to level 51-56 through the zone in about 5 hours. considering that it took that character nearly that long to get from 49-51 before TBC there is no question that the content is orders of magnitude easier.
There are definitely still some quests with vanilla-era drop rates. That ‘clacker meat’ quest at the start of vash may take 7 kills for 4 drops, but I’ve had it take 20+.
Personally I think the shift is mixed. Quests are easier to access and more entertaining, but most of them are pretty superficial.
Blizz has created more vibrant environments, but for a lot of them, you’re breezing through it and not going back unless it’s dailies or farming. There’s much less of an abiding sense of place imo.
Also, that seahorse quest in Vash needs to be skippable after you’ve done it once. It’s just not a good dance-dance homage imo even the first time through, and the 4th/5th time through I kinda hate myself and Blizz.
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