Casual vs 1% should stop

That’s fine to think, however, Blizzard will notice a drastic decline in the numbers of players currently subbed to the game 2-3 months into shadowlands as all the non-raiders have no character progression and unsub to the game. They will then go full panic mode in trying to fix this.

“Raid or die” does not work. The majority of the player base does not have the time or schedule to raid, and need character progression outside raiding, or else they have no reason to stay subbed and play the game. Until shadowlands, they always had a way to progess . They no longer do in shadowlands.

Why are you afraid of more people having gear equal to yours, just at a much slower rate? Are you really that insecure?

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They are doing more damage to the Covenant systems then they would of done by just would of pulled the ripcord.

People need ways to progress, this is true. However, WoW was at it’s pinnacle sub numbers back in TBC and WotLK. Expansions that didn’t have all these new fangled systems. It was raid or die, yet their subs were in the 12 million range. After WotLK WoW has been in steady decline sure, but that’s because they removed some things and added things that weren’t that great. Up until WoD it was raid or die yet they managed to keep more players subbed than BFA, than SL even if they continue down this path. It’s not the gear progression that unsubs players. It’s the convoluted systems that are so complex it takes third party websites to make heads or tails on what do use. I can’t tell you what your specs best azerite traits, essences, or corruptions are off the top of my head. In SL it’ll be no different.

Going back to a time where the best gear came from the harder difficulties would bring life back to WoW and reignite sub numbers. History can tell you this. It gives incentive for players to try that content, and from what I’m reading, it seems you have no care for incentive, just a give me kind of attitude.

And no, i’m not that insecure about people having the same gear as me. What I am saying is I don’t want you to have the same gear as me when you didn’t put i the effort. You don’t deserve the same pay rate as me when you do a job much easier than mine.

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You get mythic raid level gear from mythic plus???

I was pro get rid of TF and I’m a casual .

I like pushing my numbers to be higher but if you want to compare who is more of a metaslave let’s compare m+ keys… You have more keys to my none.

As it is right now… you can get 475 gear through dungeons and through PvP. You can get 470 gear through visions. You get a free 460 piece every time the dark shore warfront is up as well as when the mythic weekly dungeon quest is up.

The game is in no way raid or die.

As for shadowlands, you can again gear up through raids, M+, or PvP. All of which provide mythic quality loot as their max reward. The only loot that mythic raiding has beyond the other two is the loot off the last two bosses, but given how much effort is required to kill them… I’m fine with them dropping better gear.

Was definitely fun finally killing g’huun and watching most of the loot get DE’d and then wondering if there was even a point to kill him again… /s

1% should stop demanding the game be built around them solely, since they are obviously a tiny minority of players.

it doesn’t make economic sense for blizzard nor is it fair for their interests to be considered over the vast majority of players.

and yes their preferred game design choices are different obviously

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Because it makes single player content faster, easier, and more fun. Why do raiders want better gear if they’re so hyped for a challenge? Don’t answer that because it’s a dumb question, but that’s pretty much how players sound to me when they parrot that ridiculous talking point.

You’re comparing a game to a job. No one is putting in work here. We’re playing a game.

I was drawing parallels. Though, technically it is work to clear the mythic raids. If you don’t put in the work to learn mechanics, optimize your character, and work as a team; you shouldn’t have the same level of stuff I do for doing it.

Ion is a 1% in mindset so the game will continue to bleed subs while it’s under his control.

It’s time for Actvision to come and clean house, tbh.

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It’s not just Ion. They’ve been in this mindset since Cataclysm. Contrary to popular belief, LFR wasn’t for casuals. It was created so that Blizzard could neglect dungeons, focus on raids, and claim (inaccurately) that they were keeping casuals happy. The addition of Mythic raiding was also for the 1%. Locking all good end non-raider game gear behind non-queable timed dungeons was done so that the 1% could feel special and falsely proclaim that forming groups to play on a timer is totally casual. Imagine a restaurant billing itself as “casual dining” while requiring reservations and forcing you to finish your food in two minutes before kicking you out. That’s about as appealing as Mythic+ is to casuals. Pet battles and rep grinds are pretty much all that casuals have nowadays.

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Yeah, because the playerbase that built WoW up was asking for it. WotLK had put the game in such a state, it was still recognizable, but much much different. So, when they introduced Cata, they tried bringing it back to the TBC days where most people said they loved it. Soon after however, they nerfed the dungeons because players that don’t give a damn started wasting time by not trying at the game. So Blizzard catered to them, and we lost what was considered by a good portion of the playerbase the funnest dungeons, turned into AoE spam casual-fests. “Heroic” lost it’s meaning; and Cata bleed subs.

False!!! LFR was through and through a spectator mode for raids. It literally had two mechanics per boss, you could que at any time, and again, if you even gave a damn and tried, could be complete in a half hour at most. it just so happened that because Tier sets were on offer in LFR did high end raiders do it. Once that stopped being a thing. It was left with the casuals, and the players that would rather que and get carried then play the game.

Mythic raiding was added to bring in something for the playerbase that actually wanted a challenge. Since they had made Heroic flex, they couldn’t ensure the same difficulty across all group sizes, plus people wanted a return of the old actual raid sized group requirements instead of just a rag-tag group of individuals taking on the literal personification of an Old God.

Just because the playerbase comes up with a system to ensure they can complete the content without players quing to do it for just the gear and not giving a damn about others and their time. Just like gearescore back in WotLK. I’m sorry if you feel like you should be invited to every +15 that pops in that que just because you pay for the game.

Just… I don’t know…

Sure, just ignore the many years of the game’s aspects becoming more and more casual friendly because it doesn’t appeal to the casual form of play you do.

Honestly, if you even gave any amount of effort in WoW, you’ld find success in the things the 1% are so trying to evily take away from you. Learning even a modicum of how to use your spells in a rotation that’s more than just hitting the lights, you may find your character performs much better. If you even gave a damn about others and actually tried to play the game to even a minimal level above “everyone else should just play for me while I reap the benefits”, you’ld find your social aspect of WoW change. My Wife who’s never played the game in her life, or any MMO like WoW for that matter, could do Normal raiding. Why? Because she tries and listened to others when they explained how things are done. And if my Wife can get a better gameplay experience in WoW than you can being literally new. It’s on you and not trying to have one.

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If they were asking for it, why did they leave? Before you claim LFR, I’d like to point out that 80% of the sub loss happened in the first year pre-dating LFR.

It didn’t happen soon after. It took a full year before the real nerfs hit in response to the massive sub loss that they suffered.

If you look at the charts and correlate the losses with the release dates, you’ll see that this is absolutely not true. The bleeding was finally staunched when Blizzard relented and gave dungeoneers who had been capped at 353 gear for no reason the same 378 gear that raiders had been sporting for months.

Exactly. The 1%, just like I said.

Show me where I said that. Way to straw man my point. What’s wrong with removing the timer from Mythics and allowing players to queue into them? Then for every Mythic you complete via the queue for the week, you can opt to queue into a higher Mythic. Just because you only see the opportunity to design a terrible system doesn’t mean I’m advocating for it.

Specifics, please? What exactly qualified as “casual friendly” in your eyes?

So now I don’t “give a damn about others” because I want timers removed from the dungeons that actually grant rewards so that I can play with others without their having to feel bad for keeping me from my reward. Whatever.

When did I say I didn’t do that? On that topic, however, learning a rotation is kind of pointless these days when 75% of your DPS is coming out of a borrowed power system. As many other players have pointed out, Infinite Stars > your rotation. As a casual player, I can learn and practice my rotation perfectly, but I will never do even half the DPS of a hardcore raider in 500+ gear, a level 15 cape, and three pieces of gear infused with Inifinite Stars.

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this is a great post. i agree with this 100%.

let us non raiders enjoy the game…or non elite mythic raiders enjoy the game.

is that too much to ask

@Shio yes i agree. they need to clean house and let pvp players and more casual, normal players enjoy the game.

skill should matter, in all areas of the game, not just who robotically learns raid mechanics and grinds raids.

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That hurts. It hurts cause it’s true.

So… you want to enjoy the game… but it’s ok that I can’t? Please tell me how that works?

Yeah, after the great dungeon nerfs, and there were other various reasons, but if they were asking for harder dungeons, I can betcha it was the nerfs that killed it.

Just like what happens when a new tier comes out. Interesting connection that.

To the rest of your post: you made it sounds like you didn’t like the fact in order to get the better items, you have to do the work in the harder content. You don’t have to time the dungeons to get loot. As long as you’ve completed a dungeon, you get a weekly chest at the highest you completed. Not to mention the timers are decently lack and can support up to two complete wipes before you can’t time them. I’m also not saying a removal of the timer would be a bad thing, I kind of want the same thing, but I would rather it be a greater challenge. A challenge you can’t just put on a random que. Just like with Cata heroics, it was on a random que and you could get lucky and get players that could do the content, will stick around and learn, or others that will leave the moment they actually have to learn something.

As far as the casualization of WoW, it’s everywhere if you look. Normal raids are barely a step above LFR, raids flexing between 10 and 30 players so the guilds that don’t have a full set of 20 can actually do the content(which does limit mechanic difficulty). +10 keys are doable if you have 460.

Then on this:

Sure, someone with IS is going to beat you if they get really really lucky. Also, don’t compare yourself to someone who is that much higher in Ilvl than you(even if I can beat people 10 Ilvl higher), you’ll just end up feeling bad. If you took the time to grind a level 15 cape, and grinded out the gear. If you did your rotation perfectly, you would compare and compete to people who have done that too, including the hardcore raiders. And the ones with 500+ Ivl have that because they grinded out the hardest content for that. I didn’t get the trinkets or shoulder piece I got because I complained hard enough. I took the time, wiped to the bosses, fought them over and over again to get these. So, to have someone who just WQ’s to be walking around with shoulders that I worked hard for does cause resentment.

And IS isn’t exactly the end-all be all of corruptions. It’s way to RNG to always do better than you, and it suffers vs TD in aoe. As well, a good layout of stat boosting corruptions can make up the difference. I can match a DH with TD9 in AoE and I only have mastery corruption.

And this. This is why players like me and the 1% are fighting so hard to change the current covenant system. We don’t want a borrowed power system to make one or more of the others obsolete or be the difference between two players of the same spec. Learning rotations as best we can are our goals because that’s what completes the content we like to do. The content that is apparently the 1%'s content. I don’t need Necrolord(my RP choice) to be so insuperior to Kyrian that I’ll never be able to match.

The real metaslaves are the people downstream who are subject to raid leaders and community perception in order to get into raids and m+.

Can you actually define what ‘RPG elements’ are?