But then Billy the Window Licker feels left out, and unfortunately, that seems to be the kind of player Actiblizzion is catering to now. Then people act like its some big mystery why showering Billy with tons of loot for doing nothing would make the entire progression system of the game pointless, and therefore causing anyone with 2 working brain cells that aren’t super hardcore, to not bother.
That’s just so crazy it might work!
The first week of a new season feels so good because I can go into a +2 or +3 and actually get gasp an upgrade.
Just doing world quests and warfronts means my entry point in Mythic + to get an upgrade is around +6 or +7, and that’s early in the season. Right now I need to run a +9 just to have a chance at an upgrade.
In the PUG world I am comfortable in the +7/+8 world. I can do +10/+11 in guild with voice chat and known players.
Why should I get to +5/+6 levels of loot doing world quests? Why???
2 Likes
True. The game has abandoned people who like, have jobs and families.
It used to be you could stay pretty well geared by devoting a couple or a few days a week to running raids to get the best gear or whatever.
But now with M+ being the main source of the best gear, you must now have far more time to commit to the game to be relevant.
1 Like
Let’s do some math, shall we.
Raiding:
Progression for your competency - 5-6 hrs a week.
Farm 3-4 hrs at a casual pace. 9 chances at loot if full cleared, current tier.
Dungeons:
Each 30-39m for in time runs. Can be as low as 20-25m if you are doing really well, but let’s say it’s barely in time and average 35m.
4hrs/35m = 6.85 runs so few more minutes and call it 7. 7 chances at loot and guaranteed item (regardless of value) for a total of 8.
They are roughly equal in the current tier.
I’ve got friends that raid mythic, are higher ilvl than me, put in half the time I do, have half the Rio score I do, and have three kids and a full time job. Gear is so dang easy to get in this game. if you think m+ is a necessity for gearing, you’re fooling yourself. The game is more casual-friendly than ever.
2 Likes
And a guaranteed item in your cache every week.
And enough residium to buy a random azerite item in a targeted slot every 3 weeks.
And, raids drop 4-5 items for 20 people and dungeons drop 3 (timed) or 2 (untimed) for 5 people which are both a much better ratio. Going >10 starts giving even more loot at the end.
IMO it would be pretty equal of loot was end of dungeon only rather than the cache.
I’m not sure if you’re trolling or not… It’s never been easier to gear up. The dungeon mechanics don’t change season to season, aside from the occasional fix (and the seasonal affix). It’s like having a raid on farm constantly.
Running M+10 gives heroic raid loot, +5 gives normal raid loot at the end of a dungeon. Casual guilds are actually better off forming 5-man groups to do M+ to get gear.
If +5 is too hard (not judging) anything below gives better loot than LFR and AFKfronts.
1 Like
I think it’s also worth noting that M+ actually gives you loot if you fail, unlike raiding, which means that you can still get rewards for content you aren’t at the level of yet.
2 Likes
I really like that idea of being able to simulate a dungeon or encounter in order to learn your craft. I personally would benefit from it. The only down side is that you always have to account for human error and an AI generated team may not do it well.
If you’re a casual, why do you care about endgame?
If you want to do M+ and can’t, just get better. Idk what to tell you
I tried getting back into the mythic+ last week and this week and noticed how much more difficult it was. I was able to get into and heal groups up to a +4 on my 375 resto druid. My biggest complaint is how they made the dungeons more difficult as well as how the affix system works. The wowhead guide says that mythic dungeons in Bfa feel about 3 keys higher than mythic+ in legion. In legion I was regularly pugging +9-+13. I liked how depending on the +10 affix, I could decide if I wanted to deal with tyrannical or not.
Tyrannical and Fortified should not be the first affix. It outright puts a big burden on gear. By just making the bosses or trash significantly tougher, it makes it so you almost need to overgear the content in order to do it. If the first affix was something that you could outplay like bolstered/sanguine/bursting for the first affix. It is manageable because the mobs/bosses are not 30% more difficult right off the bat. I liked it better when those affixes were the ones added at a +10 or higher. Easier affixes introduced early on teaches people to play around them and is forgiving if you make a mistake. Example- I just tried a +4 on my 378 resto druid. The tank kept pulling trash and leaving it on top of sanguine pools, and we needed more interrupts than we had available with a rogue/DH/hunter. I chalk this up to a bad pug that didn’t communicate. Everyone ended up just leaving the group and hearthing out saying nothing. However, if it were something other than fortified, I could have handled it and healed through the groups mistakes/lack of interrupts.
Why the change to the affixes? Why not leave the easier affixes on the lower keys so can people can take characters in there that could actually get upgrades from a +3 or 4 and learn to deal with affixes and have the lower keys be more forgiving? Why just throw in the fortified/tyrannical right off the bat? In legion there was a pretty hefty change from a +9 to a +10 for the casual player. But that would be after a player has been playing the system for a while and is familiar with how it all works.
I was excited about getting back into mythic+ and relearning the system. I’ll still probably do some more mythic+ to see how it works out. I’m just a little disappointed at the affix system. Flat % increase in mob/boss health and damage is a very boring affix and should be left at the higher keys.
It really doesn’t. Makes them take longer, but they aren’t any harder. The mechanics don’t change, just which part of the dungeon you can somewhat ignore them on.
You mean like base mechanics with slightly more damage for a tad bit longer?
You listed bolster and bursting which can both get way out of hand pretty quickly. Especially in the lowest keys where mobs have no hp and body pulls occur all too often.
Sang is easier on fortified weeks. Tanks can plan better when they have more than 4s to figure out placements.
Your iré is entirely misplaced. The BFA dungeons are baseline harder than legion. The most threatening mobs in legion had a single, interruptible mechanic per pack. Now we have larger packs with higher variety of mechanics, at least 2 mechanics per mob and a lot of them are legitimately threatening. This was by design. Ion stated, in a QnA, that the direction of mythic+ was to require communication and planning and to favor coordination.
That said, the lowest rungs of mythic+ are by far the most difficult until you reach some crazy number. Starting at 7, the derpy players drop out, for the most part, and the runs naturally get more smooth. Gl getting to those more experienced players, when you do, you’ll see that it’s all just the people around you (and maybe you, as well) not knowing enough about the base dungeon and not the early affix.
3 Likes
Which awards you an ilvl 390 cache even if you don’t make the timer, a 15 ilvl upgrade. Plus you get unlimited 5 ilvl upgrades every week. If anything, that means M+ is still too easy for the loot provided.
Tyrannical and fortified should always be the first two affixes, in rotating order. That way casual players could get into low M+ without having to memorize more mechanics, which are the hard part for them. Leave the mechanically complicated affixes for medium keys.
2 Likes
To be fair, Tyrannical and Fortified are actually the hardest affixes, but only for higher keys. Anything below a 10 they are easy to deal with.
2 Likes
That’s fair. All the more reason to use them both, to help the casual players at lower keys, while giving the higher key players more of a challenge.
Idk if that’s a great idea. Lesser skilled players would complain that dungeons are too hard moreso than they already are.
Aren’t high M+ supposed to be hard?
1 Like
See, that’s the wonderful part about M+, it has different levels for varying skill levels. People of each skill level can find a difficulty suitable for them.
Now the rewards from them is a different issue, people who geared through low skilled content might not be able to get meaningful upgrade from M+ they are capable of completing. Well…too bloody bad, the solution to that should actually be reducing the reward ilvl from other content, and not making M+ easier.
1 Like
Yeah of course. That’s the whole idea of the system, but there’s been numerous threads of people crying that M+ is too hard.
Yes, who says they aren’t? Having tyran/fort alternate is working just fine. A lot of the combos that would result from having tyran AND fort would just be unfun and annoying, NOT hard. The timers would have to be adjusted too, because high tyran boss fights can last a really long time.
The same people complaining about comp diversity would be complaining even more with tyran and fort because you would probably end up taking the same classes every week even moreso than now.
Yeah of course. That’s the whole idea of the system, but there’s been numerous threads of people crying that M+ is too hard.
Then they can do a lower key? I mean, if someone can’t finish a 10, they should try a 9, and so on.
1 Like