Hunter’s Mark has always been one of my favorite abilities, truly surprised at the hate towards it
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of all million fantastic takes ive ever heard you have for once in my life I can say I disagree haha
Dnno I’ve always been a fan of it besides the multiple PvP uses
I actually don’t mind “boring” maitinence buffs
I guess I’m ok with things not always being the most convenient 24/7 too, obviously it’s hard to want to go back to something that can be annoying.
To me I’m a fan of the little things. Even things that are super annoying and feel like they are bloat have value in a way.
I think I just have a more different perspective, I value some types of inconveniences. I always enjoyed keeping up hunters mark and old hawk aspect but I do understand why other people don’t. I just think there’s value to those types of things.
I know it becomes annoying in AoE but at least in ST it’s never an inconvenience (such as on a boss), and keeping it up in PvP or using it for utility is nice imo.
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I don’t even really think it stops rogues from getting into stealth that well
Like vanish used to snap it off or you’d cloak it in a pinch but you’d still have the pet to contend with for a restealth
if memory serves me correctly
It let’s you see stealthed targets, it doesn’t prevent stealth. Gives you an idea of where they are. Useful against shadowmeld too, to prevent people from shadowmelding your abilities. Also if you’re playing with a sub rogue hunter’s mark let’s you see in shadowy duel (this is a current interaction if you play MM). I loved using it vs priests with spectral guise in MoP, so they would push in thinking they could fear while I waited to silence shot them for example.
Also nice vs druids in general, as well as a cover for warlock imp dispels. In the past it could cover MD too. A minor ability with a plethora of cool uses is the type of thing that made me love hunter.
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Hunter forums is the best class forum.
They will do anything to make their class worse and complain about any buff that otherwise wouldnt even exist.
Truly amazing.
Hunter marks has a 60 yard range and causes 0.7 gcd, much lower than all other skills and has an enormous uptime which makes it IMPOSSIBLE to ruin your rotation.
i loled hard, if it makes you lose damage swapping, which is what will happen, then it’s not mandatory.
Kinda obvious that you put that on the highest HP mob, attack it and AOE while auto attacking it and focusing it.
Atm vanish doesnt remove it in shadowlands.
Nor shadowmeld.
Also cloack a hunter’s mark? go for it, a nice way to give a win to the enemy team removing your biggest defensive CD for a spammable 5% more damage debuff.
It is a pretty big help vs rogues and druids, invalidating their resets.
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Why not make it a passive for pve with increased crit chance vs target and add a pvp talent that changes it to a non dispellable active that also applies a large debuff or something?
I’ll be honest, I miss hunter’s mark. I was happy to see it back. I want my buttons back…but I also want them to work well. Marking someone in open world felt like I was tracking them down or something; it was nice flavor.
It’s old functionality doesn’t fit into the modern game very well. I think about how often I have to switch targets in the current pve content, and I can see that getting annoying quick. I wish they upgraded it to make it feel good to press. Maybe make it a cooldown? 3minute cd, provides raid wide buff to damage and can’t be removed by vanish - 10 second duration? Maybe thats broken in pvp, but just something that you can press and feel like you’re providing some unique hunter utility. I know we still have our traps, but I do feel like we are less useful than we used to be because of the loss of all our aspects, true shot aura, etc.
This is incorrect, on both live and alpha. It has the standard 1.5s GCD.
You are on the boss. Hunter’s Mark is up. A priority add spawns. You now need to move your Hunter’s Mark to the new add, using a GCD, then DPS. If the add dies in under ~15 seconds, Hunter’s Mark contributed less damage than an Arcane Shot in the same GCD would have. When the add dies, you then need to move your Hunter’s Mark back to the boss.
Which PvP talent are you going to give up for it? If it’s a passive, why have it exist at all? We already have way too much passive crit in Shadowlands, I have something like 40% crit on Aimed Shot as an MM Hunter with Master Marksman on the Torghast template.
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Right, but whether it’s a damage loss or not is purely mathematical. Right now, if the target lives longer than 15s, not applying Hunter’s Mark is a flat DPS loss. At that point, it becomes mandatory.
And it’s not as simple as putting it on the highest-HP mob and AoEing off that target. If one of the lower health ones is a higher-priority kill (common in M+, for example), you’d be very bad to Mark and focus the highest-HP one, considering Trick Shots is only 50% cleave damage.
Unless that’s a change in SL alpha, Hunter’s Mark currently causes a full normal-length GCD, not a 0.7s one.
It’s not a buff. We’re balanced around having it active. Or did you think we’d simply do 5% more damage than everyone else with it active?
It’s a 5% nerf to secondary target damage, and a mandatory spell cast to do balanced damage (especially in target-swapping situations). There’s nothing even remotely close to a “buff” involved.
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Its not useful though. Were getting an ability that “allows” us to do full damage. really think about it. There taking away damage and pretending to give us something back, when in fact it makes things like target switching a chore.
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I enjoy the benefit Hunter’s Mark in PvP gives. For that, I’m excited to have it back. I haven’t tested it in Alpha, but just general remembrance of it’s use in the past is just annoying to move it from target to target.
If we think about it with a PvE outlook, in reference to Mythic+ I can see it having a benefit to taking down the priority targets, or during bursting giving you that extra damage on the lowest health so you can stagger those bursting debuffs out, but cleavewise it’ll be good for one target then kind of a hindrance thereafter. Even for Bolstering, this could have a negative effect putting damage on one specific target over others.
It’s great for raid bosses, and the boss fight with an occasional add it will shine nicely.
The issue is that your damage otherwise is 5% less. You must place this on a single target to obtain your true damage output. The thought of having a more mechanical advantage like " due to precise target acquisition it slows the target by 30% for 3 seconds with each auto shot/ auto attack," or “every autoshot / auto attack vs this target will increase focus by 3” would be preferred. I understand the latter would be a DPS increase, but if you believe you can take down a target without it’s use, it makes it unecessary to do solid damage (ex. Cleaving down targets in M+).
I mean useful as in has a purpose.
If all it does is tracking and stealth prevention, it is not useful in PvE. It used to be in Vanilla, before raid markers were a thing, but raid markers are a thing now, so we don’t need a giant floating arrow pointing to the kill target for the other DPS to know which of the Sons of Rag to focus on Majordomo.
There’s no benefit to it period in PvE. It’s 5% damage to the given target, but we’re balanced to do 5% less damage than everyone else unless we have it up. So putting it on a priority target isn’t going to let us kill priority targets faster, it just means we kill them at the pace we’re balanced at, and kill everything else 5% slower.
Hunter’s Mark is a nerf, pure and simple.
That’s why I want it to be purely utility. Ideas I’ve seen that I like (all of them include the current see-through-stealth, but not the damage bonus):
- Increases the range of all of our attacks (including melee attacks, for SV) on the target by 5yds.
- Increases the range of all attacks on the target by 10% (raid buff, gives melee about half a yard extra, gives ranged 4 yards extra)
- Causes us to heal for X% of the damage we deal to the marked target.
- Causes all attacks on the marked target to heal the attacker for X% (lower than the above personal leech, this would be a raid-wide version, say 1% leech or something).
- Auto-shots and abilities directly targeting the marked target increase our movement speed by 6% for 6 seconds, stacking up to 5 times (total 30%, basically a variant of WoD’s Aspect of the Cheetah, to assist in our kite-class niche).
- Increases all physical damage taken by the target by 5% (does not stack with Mystic Touch, basically lets us provide the buff in addition to monks).
All of those would have benefit, all of them would be worth using in many situations, but none of them would be required, and none of them would feel like we’re being held back by not having it active. Putting it on a target wouldn’t be a DPS choice, it would be a utility choice, which makes it actually a choice.
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Best solution outside not bringing it back is to take it off the GCD, that would probably solve some of the issue.
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No it does not.
It is 0.7 RIGHT NOW.
Oh, the horror! The adds that spawn every 30 or 60 seconds? And if its several there isn’t even a reason to use the mark regardless? lmao
Basically what almost every class but ret paladin have to do.
Basically like all classes? its not like warrior love using rend nor demo warlocks love to swap to use gul’dan. Yet they have been doing it for over 3 years and hunter’s mark is still better than those lol.
Just pay attention to their HP. Ctrl+V.
Hopefully you are not a machine that will only do a line of code at any given moment.
It is a 0.7 Right now.
You do realize you would get literally 0, right?
It is also a big buff for PvP especially against druid comps.
Considering almost all skills recived damage buff i find this hard to believe.
Almost all MM and Surv abilites recievd damage buffs regardless.
How did it bring a nerf soo far? almost everything was buffed to this moment.
Overpowered
Overpowered, and since you dont want the 5% i dont see why you should get a 10% becaus emechanically is the same thing and extra yards is overpowered.
Might aswell make BM hunters tanks
Extremely overpowered in rated bgs and arenas and in several boos fights because run speed/mobility is the ebst offensive and defensive pve stat
Exactly the same thing you have for your dps but for some reason making hutners MANDATORY for mythic is a better solution right? lmao
Hunter’s mark as it stands is good and a free buff that also greatly help hunters prevent resets from druids and rogues in arenas.
lmao, sure.
Literally EVERY ABILITY would have to be macroed with it.
No. This is 100000000x worse.
The skill is fine, obligatory get good.
I mean you are just factually wrong about the GCD. I’m talented into HM on live, and I’m playing on alpha. It’s a standard GCD.
You understand that if we do 5% more damage with Hunter’s Mark, we will be balanced around it right? They haven’t made a numbers pass on alpha yet, that comes in Beta and Prepatch PTR unless something is so egregious it skews mechanical testing.
They aren’t going to let MM do 105 damage for every 100 damage Assassination does, so the expectation we will be balanced around will be that HM is up for us to deal full damage. That means that we are doing 5% less damage than any other class (assuming perfect balance) on secondary targets.
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Literally just tested it on a target dummy. It’s 1.5 seconds.
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Still not good enough.
A bit better. Still don’t prefer it.
I’d prefer if it were an actual “nice boost” and a nice boost only, e.g. a range increase.
We hate it because in PvE it’s entirely an uninteresting set-and-forget damage increase around which the entire class is balanced. At least that’s what it used to be, and that’s what it will be. They made it auto-cast in MoP and removed it in WoD precisely because of player demand.
It is an inconvenience for priority add burst, which is something MM has historically been particularly good at.
As other people have pointed out: it’s absolutely not a buff. You would have to be completely naive to pretend that they aren’t tuning the class with the assumption of ~100% uptime of HM. The class would be OP otherwise.
Truly amazing.
It causes a full GCD on live, i.e. 1.5 secs reduced by haste to a minimum of 0.75 secs. On SL alpha it’s 1.0 seconds. I don’t know if that gets reduced by haste or, if it does, what the minimum is, but that’s still a lot more than 0.7 secs until you get a lot of haste.
In most situations it’s worth setting up a Hunter’s Mark unless the target lives for a short period of time. In those situations where the targets are short-lived the existence of HM is a flat-out nerf because, again, the class will be tuned with ~100% HM uptime in mind. This is precisely why we don’t like it.
I’m not sure how it works in Shadowlands and I frankly don’t trust what you have to say about it at all given your delusions about its GCD even on live. But right now on live it gets removed by Vanish and Cloak of Shadows. No, a Rogue is not going to use those specifically to get rid of Hunter’s Mark but it does mean that when they do it for whatever other reason they also drop the mark which is cumbersome.
No one is actually opposed to the utility aspect of Hunter’s Mark, anyway. The strife is from the damage aspect and how it adds an extra GCD of setup to PvE damaging. This is going to feel especially bad when combined with the GCD changes of BFA.
Um, no, it’s not. Validated by:
- Reading the WoWhead page which has it at a full GCD
- Asking in the MM discord and having MM players tell you its a full GCD
- Literally testing it in game and finding it’s a full GCD
P.S. Again full GCD means 1.5 secs reducible by haste to 0.75 secs (which is at 100% haste, BTW, which no one has).
Stop making stupid assumptions and go check for yourself
“It’s not that bad” is not a real argument. You’re not actually disputing that it’s bad, here. You’re just saying it doesn’t matter.
I, and plenty of others here, think it does. Maybe it’s because we play Hunters while you just troll the Hunter forums on your melee toon.
Both of those abilities are significantly more involved than what Hunter’s Mark does. Bad comparison and another bad argument.
And now you’re back to “it’s not that bad!”.
No it isn’t.
It’s not that big of a buff, and this still doesn’t make it fine in PvE.
Hunters also received “only buffs” going into patch 7.1.5 from the looks of the patch notes, and then when the rubber hit the road the bottom 3 specs on warcraftlogs were the 3 Hunter specs. What happened? Everyone else got buffed more. What you’re blissfully ignoring here is that tuning and numerical strength is in fact relative to other classes and specs.
Plus, doing 1:1 comparisons of tuning between expansions is a terrible argument because there are other factors at play, e.g. the fact that we are losing azerite traits and different specs depend on those to different degrees.
The fact of the matter is there is going to be a rough damage output baseline and they are going to make an effort to tune all the DPS specs so none of them fall far from that baseline. That’s how it works in every patch and expansion. And when they do comparative tuning of Hunters v.s. other classes that Hunter output number is going to assume Hunter’s Mark, period. It is NOT A BUFF.
What a ridiculous argument: +4 yard range is overpowered. Keep in mind that you are simultaneously arguing that Hunters are getting a flat 5% damage buff due to Hunter’s Mark.
You have absolutely 0 standing to make such a ridiculous statement given the class you’re posting from.
He literally said in his post that WE USED TO HAVE THIS in the form of Aspect of the Cheetah. Try to keep up.
Once again, he said right there in what you quoted that this would not stack with other similar debuffs from other classes. It’s like at this point you’re just reading half of each point before writing down more of your cringe “counterarguments”.
Why would this even be a problem? We already tend to macro in a ton of stuff to our abilities and you of course wouldn’t need to macro it. It would be 0 difference to what we do today.
If only you would “get good” at forming coherent arguments.
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I saw this yesterday and immediately though of Hunter’s Mark:
I swear they don’t even read what they write.
Coming in the next expansion:
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