Ideally you sac them high, but it can help with unexpected situations where they get low. 35% is still at a point where the next pulse or tick would otherwise kill them, but could be saved with sac.
There’s also another talent that synergizes with this:
So depending on the heal amount, the 35% player could end up at 75% or above.
I don’t see how these are all “trap”.
It would work on rot damage but otherwise, yeah.
What’s most likely to happen is probably a big hit taking someone to 35% health at which point Sac triggers while there’s no more damage to absorb.
I can see this as a learning curve talent, where as you’d prefer it to be used at all rather than have it be forgotten entirely for the entire key, raid or whatever else.
You can still use it manually though, it’s just that it might be on CD.
While we’re on the subject, Recompense should also be gone.
1min Sac VS 2min Sac but increased DR should be the choice, and not just increased TRANSFER damage but actual DR from the damage transfered.
Maybe ultimate sacrifice as 2min cd vs 1min sac.
I always loved ultimate sacrifice, felt like a big ultimate type spell in mobas. Maybe ultimate sacrifice needs a damsge reduction on the damage transfered so it doesnt outright kill you. Maybe could be cancelled at will by the paladin?
100%? Holy cow.
Yeah that would work.
That’s more niche than the 1min, I could see it as a failsafe for unlucky targeting of big damage mechanic where someone gets targeted repeatably.
Like the corrupt on the last packs in Grim Batol hitting 1 player 3 times in a row.
That’s basically lending your defensive with extra steps, very paladin like. 
It would only be worth it with the other talent: Holy Ritual which will also heal the Sac target on application and again when it expires. It also highly depends on how good that healing is. We will have to wait and see.
I don’t know what the numbers look like today, but in WoD more people got the “defeat all pet trainers in Draenor” achievement than there was characters with a rating of 1600 in 2v2 (or maybe it was 3v3, i forget) on the S1 ladder of WoD.
I don’t think that hold true today though. The pet battle scene seems to have died off for one reason or the other. But at one point it was popular enough to get their own weekly event* and “pet battle dungeons”. There was also several youtubers dedicated entirely to pet battles.
*The pet battle weekly used to be the only event for the week and wasn’t shared with another weekly event as it is right now.
Do you know offhand what the situation is with Dusk/Dawn?. In the original notes they gave us the 10% base armor to offset the loss from seal of order (-10% armor). Wowhead tooltip for 11.0.5 talent tree still lists the armor in the optional section but also lists seal of order which is gone I think? So think we may be armor neutral (sorry if you addressed this earlier, I didn’t read through all the replies).
They are nerfing Dusk specifically I believe by 10%, but you have to remember that a constant 10% is better than a proc that expires.
Also, 10% base armor increase + 10% is more than base armor + 20%.
Bad way, Prot will still be trash compared to the top tier damage soakers.
And I hope all of the percentile buffs are enough, they sure don’t seem like they will.
I’d rather keep dusk’s numbers intact and Seal of Alacrity.
You’re being a doomer by saying that like you know something.
Not true
Lightbringer is working right now.
With the reduction to judgment cd and blessed hammer holy power generation still be even smoother. We don’t need AS to generate holy power to do well and past seasons demonstrate that.
Wanna bet?
Elaborate.
Oh you mean the talent no one takes then, good, great changes.
Yes it feels great to press a non generator button that has over 10 talents on it and does less dmg that Judgement when the others are on CD. AS needs to generate holy power to improve the rotation.
Lookng at your previous posts, arguing with you is likekly to waste my time since you believe you are always right, so enlighten me know it all: How is any of these going to make us compete with the top tier tanks in terms of not dying from a white swing?
I wouldn’t mind seeing HP generation back on AS again, but as it stands the button provides enough passive buffs and active interrupts (feeds well into the new LS interrupt talent) that it is important enough to press as is.
No serious player is going to waste the talent point on auto sac, it needs something more to it to make it appealing. Sacing someone low is a waste of the cooldown.
Light’s Revocation makes bubble taunt an even better button to press when you factor in the increased cooldown reduction given to Golden Valkyr.
Losing 4% haste stings but the overall gain we’re getting for a better designed tree is a worthy trade off.
I like the changes.
Very positive for Prot, I’ll look forward some tanking next patch. Much needed we are the most squishy.
For Holy minor changes.
Retri never played, I can’t say
There’s nothing to bet. My stance was that it could be good or bad. You are saying it is going to be bad as if you know the inside scoop.
I already did in this thread.
I don’t know how you don’t think 10% healing you take being additionally given to the party isn’t a good thing.
I’m saying I can see what’s gonna happen because it’s predictable, it has already happened before and it will keep happening until they rework Prot completely.
Yeah, I read that, awful take. Try again.
It is good. Is it neglegible? Absolutely.
Oh so I was right about you being petty. Lmao
Yeah, it’s called progression. I was running +20 in Shadowlands, since all you care are numbers.
And I’m not dying to white swings, I’m taking too much damage that other tanks aren’t even when properly managing my defensives. Maybe because our mitigation is lackluster?
And you didn’t even answer my question, you just diverted to looking at my IO to make yourself right, as you always do in every post I see you in.
Almost everything that you’re concerned with losing has been added back in as a passive. You might want to go back and read the whole thing.
The only thing paladins are losing is the passive 4% haste. However, we are gaining the ability to take Divine Purpose and Vengeful Wrath in the same build along with a ton more utility options. Consecrated Ground being moved to the class tree and us having the flexibility to actually take it could be pretty huge on its own.
Overall the updates to the class tree are absolutely positive.
How can you claim it’s predictable when Prot Paladin was either meta or 2nd choice in 4 seasons the last 2 expansions?
Coming from you and your experience, your take doesn’t mean much.
How much healing do you take in per run? Now add 10% of that to the other 4 players. You act like ~100 million extra healing is nothing.
I think you meant that you didn’t understand my argument and now you are doubling down after making up something in your head.
Where you?
Your literal words were dying from white swings.
I did answer your question.
I am only going to comment on your first point (although I do think a lot of these are PVP enhancements).
IIRC the trigger for Sac will trigger its cooldown? This is a huge PVE nerf. Whats the point in PVE of triggering this cooldown? Lots of events cause massive damage spikes and I want to choose when/who I cast this on. Lets say a huge burst of damage drops a fellow raider to 20%, it triggers Sac, but then the damage output is over, so it doesnt actually reduce the damage they receive. The reality is i pop Sac on my tank during a tank buster, or on a DPS who has to soak a mechanic.
Its been a minute since i have looked at the notes and I could be wrong, but if i am right, then this one is aggravating.
Yeah it will trigger the Sacrifice CD and I can understand the argument that it can put it on CD for another time you might need it. However, there is the argument that if you saved the person now that they would have otherwise died and wasted a Battle Res.
I think it could be cool if there was a simple way to toggle the auto cast on and off that way you could have it on for certain points in the run while having the option to manually save it for bosses or certain pulls.
Yeah, that’s definitely a risk where the damage output is over. However, on the flipside depending on the key level avoidable damage will just oneshot someone which will maintain your CD where pulsing unavoidable damage is what typically will use up the Sac autocast.
I can see both sides of the aisle on this one where it uses up the CD, but for me I think what will be the determining factor will be how good the on-application plus off-application heal will be because that could potentially save the healer’s cooldowns for another group burst damage.
Currently, I typically Sac early in the pull or right before the pull so it won’t really affect me in that way.
That would be most cases it triggers, yep.
But there is a point to be made about this being a learning curve talent where you’d rather see it being used at all, even if sup-optimal, than not.
Sometimes it’s a big hit, yes, and sometimes it’s rot or a big hit which is still followed with some amount of damage.
I don’t see a real utility for this in raid TBH.
In pug keys where things can get a bit more hectic with trash pulls, it can have some redeeming qualities.
I personally won’t use it but when one of the biggest blunder you can make as Paladin is not use you blessing (which happens a lot, lets be honest), it won’t be a total loss for some people.